October 21, 2014



DHS Buying More Ammo: Lots of Non-Military Calibers

June 1, 2013


Binaryloop

| I've lived all over the US and found that most Americans love liberty but, get fooled into partisan politics. My goal is to wake people up and help them see it's not about left or right -- it's about freedom!



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Post image for DHS Buying More Ammo: Lots of Non-Military Calibers

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has posted a bid on the Federal Business Opportunities site. They are buying up more ammunition and this time it is definitely not the typical caliber of bullet used by the military.  The Government Accountability Office has already investigated the Department of Homeland Security’s plans to purchase large amounts of ammunition. These large purchases of military rounds in the past has led to shortages of ammo for civilians and police departments around the country.


DHS claims that it is buying ammo in bulk to save money, but experts have pointed out that hollow point bullets cost nearly twice as much as full metal jacket rounds. They also explode on impact for maximum damage, which has caused some Americans to wonder what purpose they would serve the DHS domestically. Purchasing 1.6 billion rounds of ammo would also give DHS the means to fight the equivalent of a 24-year Iraq War. Members of Congress say the DHS has repeatedly refused to tell them the purpose of procuring such large amounts of ammo.

The latest bid from DHS is requesting the following types of ammunition:

  • 45 Long Colt – 250 gr. JHP total rounds 4000, 200, bx;
  • 45 ACP 230GR JHP 1000 rounds per box total rounds 20,000, 20, mx;
  • 22 LONG RIFLE CCI GREEN TAG COMPETITION RIMFIRE AMMUNITION total rounds 40,000, 400, bx;
  • 30-30 160 gr. – this is being used for a Government gun. total rounds 4,680, 234, bx;
  • 12 GAUGE #8 BIRDSHOT WINCHESTER AA LIGHT TARGET AA128 total rounds 20,00, 80, bx;
  • 410 GAUGE #9 WINCHESTER AA TARGET AA4109 total rounds 10,000, 40, bx;
  • .357 MAGNUM 180 GRAIN JHP total rounds 6,000, 300, bx;
  • 7.69X39MM 123 GRAIN total rounds 5,000, 250, bx;

Granted, there are some calibers of ammo in this list that would be expected for military use (i.e. .45 ACP, .357 and 7.69X39). But, the other items simply give weight to the rumors that DHS is buying up ammunition in an attempt to prevent civilians from getting it. Why does DHS need .22 long? or .410 gauge? These are typically rounds used for target practice or hunting birds, squirrels, and rabbits.

US Senator Jim Inhofe recently introduced a bill that would prevent government agencies from buying any more ammunition if its stockpiles are already larger than what they were in previous presidential administrations. Senator Inhofe said:

“President Obama has been adamant about curbing law-abiding Americans’ access and opportunities to exercise their Second Amendment rights. One way the Obama Administration is able to do this is by limiting what’s available in the market with federal agencies purchasing unnecessary stockpiles of ammunition… [DHS] has two years worth of ammo on hand and allots nearly 1,000 more rounds of ammunition for DHS officers than is used on average by our Army officers.”

Congressman Frank Lucas cited an ammunition shortage in Oklahoma and blamed the DHS for taking away Americans’ Second Amendment rights by removing ammo from the market.

 




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  • Frank_O

    “DHS Buying More Ammo: Lots of Non-Military Calibers””Congressman Frank Lucas cited an ammunition shortage in Oklahoma and blamed the DHS for taking away Americans’ Second Amendment rights by removing ammo from the market.”
    -Exactly. The Feds with an infinite supply of newly printed money may have decided this was the easiest way to take away our 2nd Amendment rights. Will the ammunition manufacturers let them get away with it?

    • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

      Since Obama took office, 70 million NCIC checks have been made on gun purchasers. If every one of those purchasers bought 100 rounds of ammo, that is SEVEN BILLION rounds. If every one bought 1000 rounds of ammo, which many do, that is SEVENTY BILLION rounds. If you do a search on Midway (the largest online sporting goods retailer in the world) for 9mm BULLETS, not ammo, but BULLETS you will find that numerous weights and manufacturers are ALL SOLD OUT. WHY? Because WE THE PEOPLE are purchasing them and loading them and I believe over 300 BILLION rounds are in the hands of the people by now. It isn’t the government causing the shortage by buying, it’s the government causing the shortage by it’s actions and we the people are the purchasers. NOT the government.

      • Frank_O

        I hope you are correct!! :)

        • TNUGA

          DHS buys about 1% of the more than 10 billion rounds produced domestically, or about 120 million per year. Consumers/gun owners purchase over 8 Billion of those rounds per year, and our purchases have skyrocketed.

          When 80% of a market increases by 20% to 50%, you WILL see shortages.

          If a 1% market segment tripled their purchases (which it has not) you would see very little effect on the supply of a product. DHS purchases are in fact relatively flat, and cannot be the cause of the shortages.

          Shortages are caused by all of us gun owners. We are fearing that BHO will be successful in reducing our rightful access to guns and ammo, so we are buying much more than normal.

          • Mike

            And you are positive that they aren’t buying any off the books.. because this administration is just so transparent and no one under Oblowme would ever take matters into their own hands right? Yeah that’s what I thought..

          • TNUGA

            The reason we’re buying ammo for our safes and closets is because we don’t trust BHO and his administration. Are they buying any ammo “off the books?” Who knows? If so, it can’t be much.

            If you believe they are, what is your evidence? A hunch? Something you read somewhere? Where did they get that? I’m more concerned with BHO’s real offenses like Benghazi, IRS and AP scandals and the other items on his agenda than DHS ammo purchases.

            The folks at Inforwars claim the 1.6 Billion number from published solicitations on the FBO site. However, they apparently do not know how to read the solicitations, and their math is lacking. The numbers aren’t there! I’ve seen the solicitations and have a database of them. The1.6 Billion number is Bovine Scat!

            If you have evidence to support these large purchases or the “off the pooks purchases,” tell us about it. I’ll read it. However, every wild goose chase I’ve gone on for the last 3 months somehow winds up with NO factual information, or it originated at Infowars.

            What you got?

      • TrevorLyman

        But if there IS a shortage the government shouldn’t stockpile. That’s the main point. The gov is buying way above and beyond what they need and they shouldn’t do that where there isn’t enough to go around.

        • TNUGA

          But, the government isn;t really stockpiling. DHS buys and uses about 120 million rounds per year and they currently have about 250 million rounds in inventory, a 2-year supply. Some of their orders take 6 months under normal conditions, so, it’s prudent to keep a 2 year supply.

          The rumors of them buying 1.6 Billion are huge exaggerations.

          • TrevorLyman
          • TNUGA

            So, Trevor, you simply post a link to an older article as your proof? That article has no substance, either, and is simply regurgitating information that probably originated from Infowars.

            Brietbart published a similar article about that time, and later published the one below. Kindly read it closely and feel free to ask any question you with. I, too, believed these rumors at first. I”ve been researching this subject for over 3 months. I’ll be glad to answer any honest question you might have if I can.

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/04/The-Great-DHS-Ammunition-Stockpile-Myth

          • TNUGA

            Here’s a link to a letter that is posted on Rep Chaffetz (R-Utah) website with information you might want to read.
            https://chaffetz.house.gov/sites/chaffetz.house.gov/files/Procurement%20Procedures.pdf

          • TNUGA

            And here’s a link to the GAO report I referenced. On page 9, Tabel 2, you will find the reference to the 1.79 Billion rounds of small caliber ammo used by the US military in 2005.

            http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05687.pdf

          • TNUGA

            Trevor, let’s com[pare notes. I have a database of DHS ammo solicitation since 2004. If you believe the 1.6 billion number, kindly list the solicitation number for the largest solicitation you can find. I’ll look it up in my database and let you know if it is legit. Fair enough?

            If you’ aren;t familiar with solicitation numbers, then you don’t know much about DHS’s procurement procedures.

          • TrevorLyman

            You want me to submit my data to you so you can review it in your secret database to let me know if my data is acceptable?

            How about we just ask Janet Napolitano?

            http://libertycrier.com/government/napolitano-drudge-report-is-not-credible/

            1.6 billion rounds over 5 years. Stated- normal buys are 150 million per year. That amounts to .7 billion rounds in 5 years. 1.6 billion is a .9 billion increase in rounds over that time.

            There should be no increase during a time of shortages. There are other departments buying large amounts as well- like the IRS.

            In the end I’m very happy the people are looking more closely at the government actions on this issue. The people should always come first in terms of buying ammo and because there are shortages the gov should stop buying until the shortages go away.

          • TNUGA

            First of all, Big Sis delegates all of this to her underlings and is not very familiar with the day-to-day business and specific numbers. Go back and listen to what she said, and realize that the video has been edited.

            When you listen to what she says, she is stumbling, saying it was a strategic sourcing contract for 5 years (there are actually 6 or 7 in force) for “one point whatever…” then she stumbles over the “billion rounds,” etc. as if she’s fumbling for words. She doesn; have all those numbers.

            The intital question by Duncan was asking about the 1.6 Billion number and at the end, she says, “absolutely not true.”

            By the way, have you read the information that Rep Jeff Duncan’s ( the man questioning Bis Sis in the video) has posted on his website now? Take a look and refute anything you want. OK?

            http://jeffduncan.house.gov/sites/jeffduncan.house.gov/files/White%20Paper%20on%20DHS%20Ammunition%20Procurement.pdf

      • Trebor

        HORSE FEATHERS

      • Capt Parker

        The point is ….. why are these “other” agencies (such as the post office and NOAA) buying ammunition AT ALL?
        Why are they buying all the different types of ammo?
        Why do “government agencies” need something line 168gr A-MAX .308WIN, with a BC of .475? This is “long range” ammunition exactly like what I’ve used for 600-800 yard shooting.

    • Heath J.

      “Will the ammunition manufacturers let them get away with it”?

      YES or, the DHS wouldn’t be able to buy .22 long or .410 gauge.
      Ammunition Manufacturers are proving to the American “Citizens” that they don’t give a damn about us or, they would STOP selling to the DHS which do NOT need this ammo, which would only be for use against American Citizens.

  • Anothercoilgun

    There are more citizens then citizen DHS “employees”. Think about that before making comparison of number of ammo the citizens buy. Any talk of citizens causing shortages is a joke and suspect of shilling.

    To not understand what is clearly taking place is to not be an intelligent lifeform.

  • TheRealEvilGenius

    What they are doing is violating the law.

    • Apoc

      What law? The government is a dictatorship and is above all law.

      • TROLOLOLOLOL

        All hail our Supreme Leader! All hail Fuhrer Obama!

  • TNUGA

    DHS buys about 1% of the ammo made in the US. You don’t create a shortage by buying 1% of a product.

    • Rick Keller

      This administration has lied at every turn. The AG has been held in contempt. The congress has been stonewalled in every investigation. But somehow, YOU have all the correct data. Obot troll. LMFAO

      • TrevorLyman

        He’s definitely got an agenda!

        • TNUGA

          Yes, I have an agenda! I’m tired of conservatives looking gullible on this issue. I’m an avid hunter with a carry permit. I believed this rumor for a short while, but the facts didn’t hold up. All you’ve got is rumors. You know that Forbes article you referenced? It provides no facts, no solicitation numbers, just a reference to a Denver Post article. Did you bother to read the Denver Post article? It provides no source! You know why? Their source is INFOWARS and they didn’t want to admit it.

          PArt of this all started with a rumor about an order for 750 million. Without that order, you can’t get to 1.6 Billion, much less 2.0 Billion as some have opined. Why don’t we start with that one. Show me a solicitation for 750 million that was awarded a contract, OK? What’s the solicitation number? Here’s a clue: It doesn’t exist!

          • TrevorLyman

            Ok- first off – you’re flooding my site with your comments, so lets keep it down. That’s annoying. Secondly- you’re giving articles just like mine. You’re articles reference government reports and military times. Not exactly the most credible. I think you’re agenda is to obfuscate and introduce confusion/doubt into the issue. But that’s my opinion. Now, you’ve had more than your say already. Let people check your stuff out when they have time and come to their own conclusions. But stop flooding the site. You don’t need to respond to every comment and you don’t need to act like you have all the answers. Post your links and let them speak for themselves. You’re not doing that and it makes you suspicious.

          • TNUGA

            Wow, I didn’t realize you owned this site. I own two businesses myself, so congratulations. Why would you ask me not to “flood your site?” As a believer in the constitution, I would think both of us would believe in open and free speech. If I happened to agree with you, would you do the same?

            You berate me for referring to Goventment sites and yet you link to a government site in your article. Hmmm. Sounds suspicious!!

            When did I refer to Military Times?

            If I’m wrong, all you have to do is provide the facts that refute my statements. You haven’t done that. Click on my moniker and read my other comments on other threads. I’m a strong conservative who believes in facts.

            If you own the site, how can I send you a confidential email so I can fill you in on who I am. Perhaps we can have some civil discussion without “flooding your site!”

      • TNUGA

        “This administration has lied at every turn.” I agree.

        “The AG has been held in contempt.” I agree.

        “The congress has been stonewalled in every investigation.” I agree with this in almost every situation.

        “But somehow, YOU have all the correct data.”
        I’m not saying I have all the correct data, but the evidence I’ve seen does not support the rumors of DHS buying 1.6 billion rounds in the last year.

        If you have evidence of that, put it up; I’ll read it. If you can prove me wrong, I’ll own it. Fair enough?

        You don’t have any facts to support the rumor of 1.6 billion, or you’d show them.

  • ltd_guitarist

    it doesn’t mater if you think the government is the cause of the shortage or not. They have no business buying calibers such as 22 long rifle or 410 rounds. They work for us, and that money they spend is ours. This is a blatant miss use of tax dollars.

  • jmbw

    Never heard of 7.69×39. Pretty sure you mean 7.62×39…

  • sunsense

    “They also explode on impact” – are you stupid or just plain ignorant…Just wondering.

    • TNUGA

      Hollow point bullets do not “explode on impact,” they mushroom and expand to a larger diameter, enabling them to transfer more energy to the target.

      The article is also in error to state that “Purchasing 1.6 billion rounds of ammo would also give DHS the means to fight the equivalent of a 24-year Iraq War.”

      1. DHS has not purchased 1.6 billion rounds. They purchase about 120 millio rounds per year and currently have about 250 million rounds on hand

      2. 1.6 billion rounds is less than the 1.79 Billion rounds used by the US military in 2005. (Source: GAO report D05687 page 9, Table 2.)

      3. The 120 million rounds they actually purchase would have supplied the military for less than one month in 2005.

    • TNUGA

      Here’s a link to the GAO report I referenced.

      http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05687.pdf

      • TROLOLOLOLOL

        Oh, and I am not defending you. Just so you know. Happy trolling. ;)

    • TROLOLOLOLOL

      Frangible rounds. They don’t explode; they disintegrate. But to the untrained eye, it certainly appears that way (minus the ball o’ flame, of course). You might want to ask yourself the same question now. Stupid or just plain ignorant? ;)

      • sunsense

        Except it doesn’t say frangible, it says hollow points, and as even you point out, even frangible don’t explode.
        So what is your point in defending the author ?

        The statement still stands !

    • Capt Parker

      That language has been used by the “gun control” crowd as one of the “many reasons” that we (civilians) should not be allowed to possess such “deadly” ammunition ….. the argument used for ‘military ball’ ammunition was that is would ‘penetrate too deeply’.

  • Xmystic

    My god. I think he is playing with us now. Him and his cronies are actually rubbing it in our face that there is nothing we can do about it. They have done this with the DHS, the IRS with promoting suspects, and with the AP by having Holder investigate himself. It’s the only reason I can think of the audacity of it.

  • G-Man78

    It seems to me that if the government can’t get the guns….. then they’ll prevent us from getting ammunition!

  • Freedom lover

    Imagine the effect it will have on ammo manufacturers when the Obama Administration admits this was a mistake in a couple of years and decides to release all this ammo back into the market at a price cheaper than the manufacturers can produce it for. Lot’s of ammo manufacturers will go bankrupt.

    • BZLuck

      The government admit it made a mistake? You were joking, right?

    • BigUgly666

      They would simply burn it.

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  • sculptor Bill

    .22? .410? using them in target training? need light weight rounds to be fired from RC drone mini-copters? or are they just buying personal sports rounds on the govt dime? Maybe its this, wouldn’t .410 loaded in a hand gun be good inside an airliner at 35000 ft, you can shoot a terrorist threat repeatedly in the face and pepper him all over till he gives up (but he’d survive for torture rendition later), but if you miss the rounds won’t endanger decompressing cabin or sever vital hydro lines etc.

    • KC

      A .410 round loaded with bird shot is a very lethal round that would make an entry wound about the size of a 50 cent piece.

      • sculptor bill

        oh come on….410?! it doesn’t go through a tin can. And at what range for what purpose would cops use it? must be target/training only. Likewise .22, no stopping power, not for use in law enforcement weapons….you might die eventually from the little hole but you are not knocked down, not devastated, not taken out and that what hollow points are about.

        inside an jet at 30,000 ft, hollow points are not what you want, loaded in a magnum pistol 410. would be a close range weapon that wouldn’t go through terrorist and kill a passenger behind him or worse decompress cabin, or disable hydraulics.

  • na

    Maybe its just a bailout…..

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  • BigUgly666

    Certainly 7.62×39 is used by the military ….. it’s just NOT the US military

    • Capt Parker

      You make typos …. don’t you think someone else might make the occasional typo?

  • BigUgly666

    Hmmm!
    A really scary thought just occurred to me.
    These are “civilian” rounds (except .45acp and, perhaps, .357 mag) …. what it …….. these are being purchase to supply “false flag” scenarios in order to “prove” that it is “civilians” doing the shooting.
    I know, I know, far-fetched ….. but, so was Obamacare, so was a lot of what we see going on around us right now … like a felony arrest for having an empty compartment in your vehicle or having a “bullet” (not even a loaded cartridge) in your possession.
    Conspiracy Theory??? Perhaps, but how many things that many of you passed off as “conspiracy theory” have proven to be true and well-founded facts … like the fraud committed with Barry’s birth certificate and many other things … like Benghazi.

    • Capt Parker

      No …. I don’t think it’s “far-fetched” at all.

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