Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, And It Isn’t Weapons

zoloft-pills-350x250By Dan Roberts

Manasquan, NJ --( Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.

The overwhelming evidence suggests the single largest common factor in all of these incidents is that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.

Multiple credible scientific studies going back more then a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves. is one popular site that has documented over 4500 “ Mainstream Media “ reported cases from around the World of aberrant or violent behavior by those taking these powerful drugs…

On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.

  • Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
  • Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
  • Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
  • Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
  • Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
  • Mathew Miller, age 13, hanged himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
  • Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
  • Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
  • A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
  • Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
  • A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
  • Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
  • TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
  • Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
  • James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
  • Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
  • Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
  • Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
  • Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
  • Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
  • Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
  • Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
  • Alex Kim, age 13, hanged himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
  • Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
  • Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
  • Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hanged herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
  • Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
  • (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
  • Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hanged herself in her family’s detached garage.
  • Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
  • Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
  • Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
  • A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
  • Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
  • Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
  • Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
  • Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
  • Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
  • Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school…

Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, & It’s NOT Weapons [continued]



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  • ramrodd

    Is half the population on some type of medication, a huge number on psychiatric medications..
    Anxiety, Depression, even ADHD – opening this door is dangerous..

    Do you suggest gun confiscation for people on these drugs??

    300,000,000 prescriptions for psychiatric drugs written just in 2009

    • Ursamagick

      I suggest confiscation of all these drugs. The wrong diagnosis leads to the wrong medication. The wrong medication can take a patient and turn them into a corpse or a prisoner. Most drugs these days are only made for profit and not medical relief. The FDA is bought and paid for. Testing is a joke. We have natural substances on the Earth to treat anything. Half the dis-eases we see come from toxic food, water, air… and other drugs.

      • Rich Pasco

        Ursamagick, before confiscating medication, a larger study would be in order: What fraction of those mentally ill people would have become mass murderers without medication? I believe just as many, or even more. What fraction of mentally ill people have improved lives when treated with medications? I believe the vast majority. I see no evidence to suggest that the medication causes anyone to become a murderer. It is polyannish to suggest that anything which can be treated pharmaceuticals could also be treated as well with natural substances.

        • Jimmy

          How about dealing with your mental problems and stress(i.e., meditation, counseling) instead of a quick fix initiated by a worldwide, powerhouse pharmaceutical industry?

          • Rich Pasco

            Jimmy, I don’t think that medication is any more of a “quick fix” than meditation and counseling are. All three have their proper places in a well-managed mental health treatment plan.

          • Andrew Harris

            Rich, are you seriously going to argue that these people would have become mass murderers without the medication? You do realize that akathisia can cause people to become aggressive and or violent. People who had no history of violent behavior prior to taking the medications.

            As a scientist, you say that “correlation does not imply causation” but every proven scientific fact started out with some type of correlation. You are a bit too eager to dismiss this even though there is definitely enough data to support the theory and warrant further study.

            The United States accounts for only about 20% of the world population yet we take 80% of the world’s painkillers. Something like 1 out of every 8 school aged boys are on some type of SSRI or drug to address ADHD.

          • Rich Pasco

            No, Andrew, I am drawing no conclusions about what “would have” happened without the medication. Maybe or maybe not the mass murderers would have done their deeds. And maybe or maybe not thousands of other people who were helped by the SSRI’s would have otherwise spiraled down into a suicidal depression. It would be foolish for me to speculate on what “would have” happened, and it is even more foolish for you to argue with me as if I did.

            What I do call for, in the name of science, is an end to the belief that the medication certainly caused all the tragedies, or that they “would not have” happened without it.

          • Paulpot

            My personal experience with these drugs is that I saw the people I loved coming into my room and abusing me (hallucinations) it was terrifying. It was completely real. I took them for seizures but people who had mental illness would have a very difficult time understanding that it was just a hallucination.
            I assure you I know for a fact these drugs are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

          • GrumpyDave

            Any drug can be “extremely” dangerous for people who exhibit negative side effects. That is why your physician/prescriber should cover the known possible side effects, along with a discussion of whether *you* think the risk is worth the possible change in behaviour. *After* prescribing these medications your prescriber should be monitoring the effects on your diagnosed condition to see whether they are working as they should, or need adjustment or to be discontinued in favor of an alternate medication.

            Most people do not have the type of response to SSRIs that you describe, and the very few that I have known immediately had dosages lowered, or were told to discontinue use and given different prescriptions.

            Of course, you may be one of those people unlucky enough to have your medication treat the condition you were taking it for well enough that the doc thought it an even exchange. If that’s the case s/he should have consulted with you after the onset of the hallucinations as to whether *you* thought it was a worthwhile exchange.

          • Avery

            “these drugs”?

            There are a wide variety of drugs in this list, many of which (Trazodone for instance) which do not cause the symptoms which you describe. You can’t assure anyone “for a fact” that “these drugs” are extremely dangerous, based only on your experiences with people who used SOME of these drugs.

          • Andrew Harris

            By the way, even the pharmaceutical companies admit that SSRI’s can cause akathisia, and akathisia has been shown to cause violent and/or aggressive behavior in some cases. So it’s not like this is some kind of off the wall theory that’s not based on any evidence.

          • Andrew Harris

            It was discovered that akathisia involves increased levels of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which is associated with mechanisms that regulate aggression, alertness, and arousal.

            Marc E. Agronin, Gabe J. Maletta (2006)

          • Ruth ‘Olson’ Munn

            These medications are not a quick fix. It takes weeks to find out if they work and then upping the dosages and then when they are maxed out or show signs of bad reactions they try a different drug. Six weeks for each drug to show any effect or no effect at all is not an easy fix. This is why people who are depressed will stop taking the meds they were prescribed and go without – with detrimental defects. Go work in the medical field of care taking for these people and you will find out..

      • Concerned Reader

        Hard science trumps any and all theories of conspiracy of “big pharma”. “All these drugs” are used to correct a chemical imbalance in the patient’s brain functioning. Sure, exercise and other life style changes have been shown to ameliorate disorders like anxiety and depression; however, not every human body is the same. It is unrealistic to think that we can stabilize brain chemistry without medication. The system of prescribing and use isn’t perfect, but it sure as hell beats sentencing people to a life of unnecessary hardship.

        If you truly feel that these medications should be confiscated, I suggest you first take a course in cell biology. Then neuroscience. Then as many psychology and neural psychology classes as you handle. Then volunteer in a facility that offers treatment and therapy for mental health issues. After that regime, if you still believe in ‘confiscation’, I will respect your opinion and revere your dedication to the cause.

  • oldman67

    Facts have no meaning to those who favor gun control.

  • Rich Pasco

    I notice the article begins with a wrong word, the kind of “typo” a spell-checker misses: “The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor….” Should be “SINGLE largest common factor….

    • Patricia Robinett

      Haha… good catch, Rich. I understand there are computer programs that ‘helpfully’ ‘correct’ typos for you… but they are ‘not too smart’. I suspect this was the case here. :)

  • Rich Pasco

    As a scientist, I want to note that correlation does not imply causality. EVEN IF all these mass killers were taking psychotropic medications as stated, that does not PROVE that the medications CAUSED them to commit the murders. Any time correlation is observed, one must look for a possible common cause. PERHAPS the common cause in this case is that all these people committed the murders because they were mentally ill, AND they also were taking the medications because they were mentally ill. Obviously the medications didn’t work as intended, which would be a better conclusion that to assume that the medications caused the violence.

    As another example: Many people who die of heart attacks were found to have been taking nitrates, but that doesn’t prove that nitrates cause heart attacks; it proves that people who die of heart attacks and those who take nitrates both do so because of a common factor: heart disease.

    To infer that there would be fewer mass murders if psychotropic medications were eliminated is as faulty logic as to suggest that there would be fewer heart attacks if nitrates were eliminated.

    • my2pennies

      Perhaps we can begin by ‘treating’ people with Earth-based nutrients- as opposed to laboratory-based chemicals. Perhaps so-called ‘scientists’ would realize that torturing animals on a daily basis is never going to lead to any productive conclusion as to whether one drug or another is going to have any positive impact on a human being….perhaps if we stop allowing Big Pharma to sponsor medical ‘education’ system…..perhaps if it were illegal for Big Pharma to pay lobbyists millions of dollars to pay off our elected ‘officials’….perhaps if we refused to accept the BS that has been shoved down our throats for generations by ‘corporate america’, we wouldn’t be a nation numbed and dumbed by LEGAL drugs…….while arresting and incarcerating those who dare to pay Big Pharma competitors.

      We live in a world of absurdities. It will only change when we refuse to participate….as pawns.

      • SkivMarine

        Where do you think chemicals come from?

        • SueD.

          Plant based chemicals are often not as toxic or harmful as the ones from big pharma. Willow bark tea (aspirin) is one example.

          • Tkash

            Everybody knows that pharmaceuticals come from outer space not the Earth.

          • Pooda Chuts


          • funkotronic

            ^ Humorless troll.

          • Rob Stofa


          • Jennifer Giustra Kozek

            You will need to read my book. Your mind may be changed. healing without hurting. Release date: 11/13/14.

          • bridgetvoid

            if sharing the concept of healing without hurting was so important to you, you’d put that information up for free instead of say, selling a book and profiting from it since everyone blames “big pharma” for being in it for the profits.

          • slave2sound

            SueD., I think it is important to note that aspirin is far, far stronger of a drug than recognized by the uninformed. In fact, if aspirin were to be discovered today, or harder to naturally acquire/synthesize, it would most certainly be a controlled substance the world over.

          • Glowingmyway

            Interesting! Why so?

          • AntiHeadMed

            Long list of side effects for aspirin. More so than most drugs.

          • Jeffrey Benson

            In children it causes Reye’s Syndrome, it prevents platelet aggregation which can lead to excessive bleeding (soldiers are advised not to take it in combat), can damage stomache lining leading to ulceration. There’s probably others, but those are the top ones that come to mind. Any drug that hit the market and had issues like that would certainly be controlled until further research could be done. So it’s not the simple miracle cure-all natural remedy that you wish it were. It, like any drug, has great positive effects, as well as negative effects.

          • Guest

            Aspirin can kill. Used to be the main ‘pill’ one took if attempting suicide. Not a pretty way to go either.

          • Daniele

            They also don’t normally work as well either. I’ve tried many meds for my son starting off with herbal remedies and they either worked for a very short time or didn’t work at all. Unfortunately many need the actual meds prescribed to get any relief. Its not fair to an individual with issues to have to live that way when there are meds that can help. That said it would be great if scientists could come up with these drugs that work as Prozac, wellbutrin, Zoloft, etc but maybe target the areas of the brain differently or contain a different amount of whatever specifically for kids and young adults.

          • Jennifer Anderson

            I found the opposite to be true, but I also made sure to eat a whole food diet as well. I was at one time on a combination of 8 medications (domino effect of one or two meds to deal with personal symptoms, and then the rest to deal with side effects of those drugs). Nothing was resolved until I stopped taking all the crap, and bonus, I will not have to be on maintenance drugs for life ;)

          • fiveseven15

            Kinda feel like improper diet is the root/cause of 99.999% of illnesses that require medication, and I see why. It’s REALLY hard to eat properly…between prep/cool time and money, most just skip and go to the drive thru (me especially)

          • Cindy Fitzgerald Costanzo

            You may have not found the right thing. I suggest you review my nonprofit and learn about the product that saved my life. . If any pharm company had the 18 years of results the we got from EMpowerplus Q96 it would be on the front page of every major newspaper in the world !!

          • Heather

            Did you grow them yourself, get them from a reputable vendor, or buy them from GNC? The longer an herb has been sitting in a bottle, the more potency it loses until it’s effectively useless.

            Personally, I’ve gotten amazing results from using botanicals and I find them to be even more effective than pharmaceuticals without the horrific side-effects. i.e. Kava Kava, Frankincense, Myrrh, Oregano Oil, Pedicularis Densiflora, Stinging Nettle, Kratom, Siberian Ginseng, Ephedra Sinica, Uva Ursi, Salvia Miltiorrhiza, Mullein, Scullcap, etc.

          • Ally

            You know that kava kava is converted to ecstasy in the body right? And that frankincense and myrrh are just similar to aspirin in that they are analgesics. What you are probably experiencing is placebo effect- you expect them to work so they do

          • Mypitstop

            I have been learning liltle at a time and getting into doterra oils! I have got a collection going now! I really like them now. Still learning !

          • Chris Walker

            Doterra oils? What is that?

          • kim

            Aspirin and willow bark tea are not the same. Aspirin was synthesized with the intent of retaining the benefits of willow bark tea while decreasing the side effects.

          • dracanna

            Natural does not mean non toxic. Castor beans are the key ingredient in ricin, an extremely powerful poison. A dose the size of a few grains of salt can kill an adult.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Yes. There are a lot of plants that are lethal in large doses and some (like certain mushrooms) are lethal in small doses.Even some vitamins like Vitamin A can kill you in large quantities.

          • TheStreisandEffect

            Actually NSAIDs including Aspirin kill thousands of people every year.

          • Mark Johnson

            Digitalis is a plant often used for creating heart medicines, but when consumed directly from the plant it is potentially and very likely to cause fatality. The fungus from which penicillin is derived can cause a number of negative effects.

            70% of modern medicines are derived and refined from natural sources. These are usually concentrated and altered versions to maximize desired affect and minimize side affects tied to the original source. Hell, vicodin is a derivative of morphine which is derived from opium. Imagine trying to take the holistic herbal way for severe surgical pain, drug rehab centers would be next to every surgical facility and maternity ward.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            I was just thinking of that as my son took Digoxin for a time because of a heart defect and it comes from that plant.

          • Steve

            Arsenic is natural…. Heck most natural elements in the periodic table are deadly. Nature does not have your best interests. Even most plants are toxic, and even the edible ones have a degree of toxicity until cooked.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Aspirin used to be the main ‘pill’ one took if attempting suicide. Not a pretty way to go either. I can remember hearing about kids being rushed to the hospital to have their stomach pumped because they ingested too many aspirin. and then there’s the fact that you can’t take it if you have chicken pox because it causes Reyes Syndrome.

      • Jennifer Giustra Kozek

        I completely agree: Support my efforts: there is help for these seemingly disconnected kids. We aren’t doing enough as a society to prevent these tragedies. poisons in our foods, meds etc. are making our kids worse. Healing ADHD & Aspergers without Hurting.
        Book release Nov. 13, 2014. As a mom, and psychotherapist treating individuals after Sandy Hook Tragedy.. I found a better way and I’m about to share it with the world!

        • Jim

          I hope so, but if it is truth you will be blackballed by the scientific community.

        • Jen L

          Nice spam.

      • Keith

        Yah lets use natural earth based things that are nearly impossible to tell the side affects of, instead of synthetic purpose based chemicals that we can do clinical trials and rule out any adverse things. You hippies spouting about natural remedies don’t realize that chemicals were made to be safer than natural things because you don’t know what the shit growing out of the earth will do to you

        • LocalHero

          Congratulations. That is, hands-down, the dumbest thing ever posted on the internet and that, sir, is saying something.

        • Jennifer Anderson

          Are you an idiot?! “nearly impossible to tell the side affects of”? First of all, it is “side Effects”, unless you are talking about something different, second of all, there are plenty of double blind placebo trials on herbs and vitamins, as well as historical records of the effects of herbal drugs….hundreds of years of research on them….these new drugs? They don’t even go through trial and research for more than a couple years (if that) before they get to the consumer, that is why it is widely known that when a drug is sold to the public it is considered to be in its 4th phase of study…because you are the guinea pig. How does that feel?

          • Keith

            You probably are also against immunizations. Have fun hippy.

          • Rainabba

            Not only was the gist of your post beyond ignorant, you are apparently very confused because Keith is promoting chemicals, not natural solutions. He represents the antithesis of the anti-vax folks. Speaking of anti-vax, nobody is “against immunizations” nor could they be. Immunizations are provided everywhere whether you want them or not and regardless of if they’re delivered through a needle in the form of a VACCINE or from natural exposure.

            In contrast, a person can be anti-vax (anti vaccine) because they either believe that vaccines are unnecessary (though if they’re that all-inclusive about it, they’re as or more ignorant than you appear to be) or because they are concerned that the risks of modern vaccines outweigh the risks or not using them.

            To simplify for you: Vaccines attempt to immunize (make one immune to) against disease. Why would anyone be against being immune to disease? On the other hand, why would someone want to needlessly inject themselves with a dead copy of a disease unless there’s a real risk of contracting it, being harmed significantly when contracting it AND being confident that there’s less risk from the vaccine itself (like heavy metals or adverse reactions to a dangerous disease, dead or not) than that which the disease itself would present? The chances of being killed in a car accident are magnatudes higher than that of contracting many of the diseases that common vaccines exist for. If we’re so careful that we think that ALL those vaccines are needed (I don’t represent the groups that are anti-vax because I think some are important under certain conditions), why do we get in vehicles so readily? Further more, if we’re so concerned about our children living long and healthy lives, why put them in vehicles, with those substantially higher risks? I don’t dare try and answer that question, but the fact that it’s there to be asked proves that something is very wrong. Either way, there is a very large group of parents that another large group would consider negligent and yet one groups imposes their believe HEAVILY on the other. Guess which group is motivating by individuals and companies that stand to profit more? HINT: Nobody forces you to put your child in a vehicle in order for them to attend school.

            If you’re going to make infantile attempts to belittle someone and result to childish name-calling, you should at least have a leg to stand on first. What’s even more appalling is that you could google “Define vaccine” and “define immunization” and in less than 10 minutes know the difference. Your failure to do so means that you’re post only makes you look like the village idiot.

          • JoeNCA

            Injecting someone with dead copies of a disease is the very definition of vaccinations. That’s the only way your body will develop antibodies to a disease without actually being infected with it.

            Anti-that is anti-vaccine. Period.

          • Bluejay54

            Just a quick note, that is not the definition of vaccination. Vaccinations can also involve live copies or parts of the virus such as a toxin but not a dead copy

          • Jr Horner

            But then again, If no real immenent danger from a disease… why not let the Human body experience and create it’s own Anti-bodies, like the chicken-pox, measles..ecct.. as with my parents “protecting me” from diseases as a child… so as an adult I get exposed to the Measles and almost Die…14 days in bed with an in-home nurse. because my parents didnt want me to get sick for a few days as a child because it was an inconvenience… not promoting, but I have had children and had to deal with a few viruises, but all my children are growing, In excellent health and this family has not needed to see the Doctor in years……

          • Bluejay54

            Because you were lucky, chicken pox and measles can cause severe even fatal complications so don’t assume because it didn’t happen to you, that it won’t happen to anyone else

          • Avery

            “I have had children and had to deal with a few viruises, but all my children are growing, In excellent health and this family has not needed to see the Doctor in years……”

            And that is how many children out of all the children in the world? Not a very big sample…

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            So you got the measles and almost died. Yet you don’t believe in vaccinating against this and other diseases? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Why would you want to put your children (and other children) at risk for serious illness, long term damage and possibly death?

          • JoeNCA

            You probably are also for generalizations.

          • Jen L

            There aren’t even standards in place to ensure that a specific batch or brand of vitamin contains ANY of the ingredients in question nor are there any standards to ensure that additional ingredients haven’t been added. What does it matter if the results of a double blind placebo test are if you don’t know the ingredients in the pills?

            I honestly hope that you aren’t including the double blind placebo studies where the “herbal” pill turned out to contain pharmaceuticals as an ingredient. Some OTC “herbal” weight loss pills have contained ephedra and some “herbal” “men’s potency” pills have contained viagra. If the double blind actually studied a diet pill with ephedra, that shews the results.

          • Avery

            Ephedra is not a pharmaceutical, it is extracted from the Ephedra sinica plant. Has been for about 5,000 years. People have had adverse effects from it, though, including death. Products containing it have been banned in the US since 2004.

        • Daniel

          Your comment sounds highly uneducated…fucking idiot.

        • Shaun Bennett

          As a chemist and a biologist I can promise you one thing. Whether it is synthetic or it comes from nature, we can determine what the side effects of a certain chemical can do to your body. In the end they are both chemicals and chemicals that are exactly the same, behave the exact same way in each specific situation, synthetic or not. Thus, if we can determine the effects of a synthetic substance, we will be able to determine the effects of a non-synthetic one. If you don’t think I’m right, then you sir have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and have an opinion that is about as irrelevant as US politics.

          • Rainabba

            Aside from saying that Keith’s reply hardly warrants being addressed, I won’t dignify it with one but I would like to address yours. If we know so much about biology and can so reliably syntesize substances to our desires, why in the year 2014 can we still not synthesize a proper substitute for a mothers milk?

            Anyone who believes that synthetic drugs are as or more reliable or predictable than naturally occurring compounds is dangerously arrogant which is likely why we’re all here now. Something figured they could synthetically solve what they perceive as a serotonin deficiency when that is likely just an indicator of the real problem and even if we’ve recognized the issue well, just getting the right balance into the body is a monumental task itself. The body has been evolved (or intelligently designed if you prefer) to deal with its natural surroundings in the most amazing way. Until we have a MUCH more complete understanding of the human body (one we are decades away from at present), we are like children building sand castles as the beach compared to the architects who build skyscrapers when we synthesize drugs. Just consider why pharmacology is such a lucrative field right now; it takes a TON of luck, a TON of research and a TON of testing to replicate the most basic aspects of complex systems which nature provides without any effort because nature has been doing it for time out of mind.

            I have hope that in my lifetime we will see a complete enough model of the human system to accurately diagnose and treat illness, but right now its still a crap-shoot the majority of the time and in many ways, we’re only as healthy as we are now because we’ve learned to manage our environment much better. Very few drugs have many any significant impact that haven’t existed in some more basic form for millennia. Case in point: 2 weeks ago I went to the ER with symptoms that I was easily able to recognize as a urinarly infection of some sort. I didn’t know if it was specically kidney or bladder, but there was little doubt that was the general issue. With a detailed account of my symptoms and an array of blood work, I was sent home with a confirmation that I had “some sort of urinary infection”. I continued hydrating and resting and my body took care of it. Science vs nature and look who one? Sure, there are stories that go the other way around (neuroscience is quite incredible but still a shot in the dark compared to what we know we DON’T know) but in general, medicine is still 90% what we’ve known since humans started recording illness and treatment.

          • Karen Kern

            Rainabba, you think clearly but have some real grammar and homophone issues. Example: one = 1 won = took first place or prevailed in a contest. Harcourt, Brace, and Jovanovich, now known as HBJ, has a self directed series of English grammar review books. English 2200, 3200. You can get them at Amazon or get cheap used ones at ABE Books. I’d advise 2200 first and trying to get the test booklets also.

          • Chim Richalds

            Isn’t it comma but? Aren’t there two spaces after a period? Is, “booklets also”, correct?

          • Jeffrey Benson

            “… clearly, but…” Ruling: you’re correct. Two spaces after a period was an old standard that was recently done away with in formal writing, but it still like it. Ruling: either would be acceptable. “… booklets also,” ends in a preposition, which is incorrect, but also relatively obscure. I defy you to speak without ending sentences in prepositions (“Where are we going to?”). Ruling: you’re correct.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Where are we going? You don’t need ‘to’. Most of the time you should be able to end a sentence without a preposition. But that requires concentration and thought to form a sentence in that manner which most people do not take the time to do. I think ‘also’ at the end of the sentence is appropriate. Instead of ‘also’ you could use ‘as well’. It might sound better to say I’d also advise or better yet, I’d advise 2200 first and I’d also try to get… since you want your verbs to be of the same tense and form.

          • Jen L

            There are proper substitutes for mother’s milk, with the exception of collostrum, which is specific to the mother and varies too widely from woman to woman for it to be synthesized correctly for the child. Even if we could synthesize collostrum, it would be prohibitively expensive to do it.

            As someone who was allergic to mother’s milk and dairy at birth, you need to stop spreading false information that contributes to the shaming of women who bottle feed, since you do not know the reason that they do so, nor do you even know what kind of milk is in the bottle. Mother’s should not be shamed for the abiding by the dietary needs of their children.

          • Mark

            I think that rationality and sanity end when we its considered therapeutic to give a mentally ill person a drug with a known side effect of increased risk of becoming suicidal and/or violent. If the drug worked it would help the person, not make them more crazy. Drugs are not a good answer.

          • Avery

            What if a drug helps 97% of people, but makes 3% more suicidal?

            Would that drug be considered one that works?

          • Jeffrey Benson

            It terrifies me that you are allowed to drive… Let alone breed.

          • Jay

            I just wanted to say something about your story. The ER does the array of blood work in order to exclude the major and dangerous bacteria that your body cannot treat alone or will cause major damage before it is contained by your immune system. We need antimicrobials to get rid of those of bacteria. Your case was a minor UTI with a small amount of bacteria so it wasn’t cultured easily but doctors’ jobs is to prevent any damage at your body cannot fix.

            Btw medicine has come a long way. Case in point, I have RA and medicine such as humeria has been a god send because it can help relieve some of the symptoms caused by a faulty immune system. Btw we learned all that recently.

          • deanmc

            Since you are a chemist and a biologist, tell me….do they test a drug on both positives and negative blood types? The blood types are indeed different……what is okay for a positive to take, may not be okay for a negative. Just like there are certain foods that negatives shouldn’t eat.

          • Avery

            That is pseudoscientific nonsense.

          • deanmc

            Okay…and you know this HOW?
            Do you know that the very scientists, doctors that people rely so much upon, taking their opinion and knowledge as truth……do not even know where the negative blood comes from. They are clueless….all they can say…it not of this world…nothing can be found like it on Earth. The O negative’s do not even share the same characteristics as the other negatives. It is considered “pure” while the other negatives are still considered tainted. So, how’s that for nonsense. Funny, O negatives can donate blood to anyone, but yet, they will die if given any blood type but their own O negative.

          • Susan Forest-Rode
          • deanmc

            The only thing I read is that it “MAY” contain antibodies….not that it “DOES” contain antibodies.
            Another way negatives are different from positives…with the negative women, if impregnated by a positive man, her “antibodies” see the fetus as an enemy and will destroy it, more so with the second pregnancy, but the first child may have complications….not enough oxygen in the blood stream (where the term blue blood come from). Ergo…. scientists created the Rhogam shot.

        • Silloh

          You are an idiot! I’m glad you’re not my parent!!

        • whatdidiJustread

          Impossible to tell side effects from? Are you serious? We have more data and info on natural things than man made, ever think About that? How is it that you think with our modern science we Cant test natural things? You must be 10 years old or mentally challenged if you really believe any of what you typed here buddy, chemicals in most drugs weren’t “made to be better” than nature you fool! They were made to treat symptoms and more importantly: They were made to SALE!

        • whatdidiJustread

          Garlic has been used as a medicine for 100,000,000,000,000 years and you think we have no idea what it will do to our bodies?? How long has any random modern drug been around? Take adderall fir example created in 1996. Average of ten years, that’s thousands of years worth of data against ten years worth of data. LoL you sir are dumb.

          • Komrad

            Adderall is amphetamine and it’s been in use for way longer than 1996.
            Amphetamine has two optical isomers (mirror images of the same molecule). These isomers are called Dexamphetamine and Levoamphetamine respectively and have slightly different effect profiles.

            When you create amphetamine without regard for this difference, you get a certain propertion of the two isomers.

            To make Adderall, a small amount of one isomer is added (sorry, don’t remember which) to get a specific ratio.

            That’s it.
            It isn’t some witch magic or anything. It’s just two extraordinarily similar molecules that have been in use for decades mixed in different proportions.

          • Avery

            The D isomer is added.

          • Sciencewins

            No…no it hasn’t.
            Hyperbole has no place in science, anecdotes have no place in science. Do we know every possible interaction that occurs with chemicals? No, we don’t but the size of trials is huge, first tested on healthy individuals to note changes in their whole physiology.

          • Jen L

            Actually, you’re dumb. Adderall is the time release version of a drug that has been in use for decades. You believe that somehow, because a time release version was created that all of the previous use no longer counts.

          • Avery

            Actually, there is time-release Adderall and immediate release Adderall.

          • Avery

            Adding zeros to a number does not strengthen your argument.

        • Susan Forest-Rode

          Plants and plant based infusions, tinctures, and herbals have been around for centuries. Ever read Romeo and Juliet? Their properties were/are well known. There were people called apothecaries who used to create these medicines and sell them. They were also regulated. Certain drugs and poisons could not be sold to the general public, only to physicians.

      • Jessica Clemmons

        Dear lord. .. this is simple.. the chemicals in our brains don’t come from plants… sorry. Best we can do is try to duplicate them.. is it natural. .no. is a prosthetic arm organic. .no.. does it help the individual lead a more normal life.. u betcha! Come on. .Seriously. herbs n spices wont fix crazy bit meds can help.

        • JoeNCA

          But 11 herbs n spices do make a tasty fried chicken!

      • Thoughts_Paper

        If you mean never, as in absolutely never will animal testing benefit humans, then do, please, explain insulin, Taxol, and Dysport

      • k medlock

        Do you know anyone who has passed from cancer. My mom has and I hope they find a cure. Just saying

      • Amanda

        Couldn’t have said it any better. Amanda

      • Aaron Thomas

        I’m not saying pharmaceutical companies are to be trusted but we are beyond the point where “earth based nutrients” are more effective at treating mental disorders than medications. The necessary chemicals to control severe mental illness do not all occur in nature unfortunately but they can be created in a lab. And over the years side effects have been reduced.

      • james

        One of the subjects had no mental illness..was given medication for insomnia and nothing else.

      • waltinseattle

        lots good here, but Im sorry, good diet wont cure everything, it can only make us more able to stay closer to well.

      • Jeffrey Benson

        I hear hemlock, anthrax, malaria, snake venom, etc, etc, etc, are all-natural earth-based compounds. Please pick one and try it, let me know about it’s healing properties… Dumbass hippy. People like you refuse to vaccinate their children, and end up harming someone else’s child because of it.

    • Mask

      Well said Rich.

    • Just here

      I agree with what you’ve stated and also want to add in that some of those mass murders were Antisocial Personality Disorder. Sociopaths, and psychopaths. This is genetic. So, we have to look at other sources that caused them to commit these crimes. Medication alone, whether it is the wrong dose or prescription, is not causality. This is a weak argument for gun advocacy. In fact, guns don’t have much to do with any of these situations. If we were to say the same thing, and these people used bombs instead, I believe that people would be looking more into the why and not how.

      • trrnot

        Also most of these medications list increased risk of suicidal/homicidal thoughts or actions. One of the theories for this that when one I’d depressed, they have trouble

        • trrnot

          They have trouble doing anything. Even getting out of bed is a severe challenge for them. By taking these medications it gives them the ability to get out of bed and rejoin the world. From the examples listed it would seem the medications were starting to work, but with severely adverse side effects – which the label clearly states to contact a Dr or other health care assistance. I understand they were teenagers and may not have been communicating their status with family or counselors..

          • Rainabba

            As someone that’s struggled with some of these issues my entire life, I’d like to point out another fact; most depressed individuals who commit suicide, do so after beginning to recover, while they feel empowered and are getting their motivation back. The thing to understand there is that the underlying issues aren’t gone, just the symptoms. As Rich pointed out, this article really only points out correlation but if there was causality in these cases, it’s as likely a result of the underlying issues, the aggravators and the “bounce back” that’s well known. In this case, you could blame the drugs, but again, they aren’t causing the violence in that case so much as enabling the individuals who otherwise might not have the energy or motivation to commit these crimes otherwise. I don’t think any of us would decide to withhold the medication though on that basis or we’d be damning the other 99.999% (estimated but I’m sure it larger) who benefit positively from the exact same effects.

            Essentially we’re talking about people with any number of psychological and physiological issues who are effectively drugged to begin with (low serotonin levels) and thus perhaps less likely to act out these violent plans until they’re medicated with an SSRI. In the end, THEY still choose their actions and I haven’t seen any evidence that these SSRI’s make them (or myself) more violent though we might conclude that the SSRI’s enable them to execute the violence they’re already prone to.

            A very well known condition called Akathisia could also be a similarly related side-effect of the new-found motivation that an SSRI can provide. I’ve experienced this myself both in depression and withdrawl from medication and I couldn’t begin to adaquitely describe it (here’s an article that tries The closest I might come is to say that I felt like an irritating energy was building up inside me and if I didn’t get active, it would either explode or drive me crazy but at the same time, I had NO motivation to be active which is saying something if you know that it’s not unusual for me to log 60mi+ cycling in a week and 6mi+ running in a week. In a way it might be compared to when you are dead-tired but can’t fall asleep only for me it was 50x worse. Add that to someone that is highly emotional, upset, lacking judgement (adolescents) and lacking coping skills (which can be very hard to acquire and implement in reality) and I can begin to imagine why some of these younger offenders might have headed the direction they did (not to excuse it by any means).

            In the end, I think that someone who really needs an SSRI also needs a serious support system and one might be an incomplete solution (or none at all) without the other.

            Side-note: For me, having children which I can’t bear to imagine leaving behind and consistent exercise has done WONDERS to help me get through life. I deal with chronic pain now and get along better than I did before the accident that caused the injuries which now plague me AND I do it now without the anti-psychotics and antidepressants that I once depended on.

          • Heather

            The meds also make most people cease to care about anything. Cease to care about hurting others, about hurting themselves, about being reckless, about breaking the law, etc. I suppose some psychiatrists figure that not caring and not feeling anything is better than feeling something negative. I’d have to disagree because psychiatric medications nearly ruined my life and I wasn’t normal and couldn’t feel normal or happy or anything until I got off all that crap for good
            and fixed the underlying issues. Personally, after being switched to a new ssri medication, I tried to kill myself 2 weeks later. Kids should not be put on these medications; they are bad enough for adults, terrible for kids and teenagers. My parents can tell you the worst time of their lives and mine were the three years I spent doped to the gills on anti-anxiety, anti-depression and opiate medications with next to no appetite, entirely lethargic, hostile, tense, fatigued and unable to walk anywhere without stumbling into something.

          • Pete

            Yes, but you cannot take a personal experience and apply it to every case. That is a gross generalization. Using that logic, someone who has smoked cigarettes for 50 years without ill affects can claim smoking is harmless

          • NukeWaste

            Yes they could. I can claim to fly. But a chest X-ray will prove them wrong and my mass will prove me wrong.

          • Cathy Cale

            There are people that smoke that have no “mass”. I have taken Zoloft for several years…not for depression but anxiety. I have never had an adverse side effect or adverse thought. If anything I feel it keeps people around me a lot happier!! Every situation is different…every person is different.

          • Migal

            Everyone has mass.

          • Mr.E

            lmao im glad u said somthing

          • spiffykeen

            Either s/he was going for a pun about tumors, or s/he actually doesn’t realize that mass is a unit of measurement.

          • CC

            If you notice in the previous comment, which my reply was directed towards, A “mass” was mentioned; As in a lung from smoking. I am aware of the definitions of “mass”.

          • CC

            I read the comment I was responding to as mass being a tumor in the chest x-ray. I misread but I’m so glad to offer entertainment to yourself, Migal and Mr.E.

          • John Keegan

            Also, the first thing that a little research into this class of drug will tell you is that it’s openly acknowledged that individuals will react differently to Zoloft vs. another SSRI, etc. I was proscribed Lexapro for anxiety, and the side effects were terrible (but no suicidal thoughts, just physical symptoms). I was switched to Zoloft, and there were practically no side effects.

            My suspicion is that it has less to do with the medication and more to do with the severity of the underlying psychological condition, for which the medication may not be sufficient or might mask the severity until that threshold is passed.

          • dj

            My son shot himself in the head 3 weeks after starting Lexapro for anxiety. He had not said anything to anyone about depression or suicide. I know in my heart it was that medicine.

          • concerned

            These pharmaceutical companies don’t disclose everything they can and should. The bottom dollar is what the pharmaceutical companies are focused on given the boundaries they are permitted. It cannot be denied that our young people are more at risk than ever before to be prescribed these drugs. We all want to assume our doctors and specialists know what is best. These drugs are all only trial periods until the specialists find the “right concoction”. No tests are given to know the proper or maximun/minimum dosage for each or any individual. One thing is ceratain. . . There is one common factor in the behaviors of these young individuals- and it is becoming an epidemic. Drugs that affect the brain.

          • Dawn Stickell Wilson

            Very well said. And I am starting to believe the Drs. Scientists and Drug company’s Dont really give a crap about much more than getting that might dollar.

          • Cindy Wood


          • John Keegan

            Unfortunately, in this case, this is one of the most prominently disclosed side effects, with a ton of documentation available from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. So it’s not a matter of the pharma companies hiding it; it sounds like the doctor might not have made sufficient effort to communicate. And if it’s a minor, then that communication should go to the parent, for obvious reasons…

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Well, what you say about the pharmacies is true. But for a lot of people, me included, these medications have been a lifesaver. They work for a lot of people but it’s not like taking an aspirin. They have to be monitored very carefully and adjusted to each individual.

          • Bobsticks

            Ok, example, 42yr. old girl, Major depression, borderline PD, major chronic pain issues unaddressed.Failed to get disability, fell through the cracks.No insurance over 1 and half yr. Let’s give a highest recorded dose of antisychotic, take away the aniety meds. No income, and it’s your problem to pay for it.Oh and let’s take away your sleep meds.State of Maine is rediculous.God help her, I am not religious, someone pray for them.Let’s hear it for PCHC Bangor, Me.

          • Dawn Stickell Wilson

            Sorry for your loss DJ.

          • Shana

            I am sorry for your loss.

          • John Keegan

            My deepest sympathies.

            SSRIs are known to cause suicidal thoughts in some people, which his doctor should have provided ample warning and documentation about…I know I got a full lecture on making sure I had people keeping an eye on me during the initial adjustment period. Hardly comforting, I know, but if the doctor failed to do that, he/she is liable…

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            The doctor should have been monitoring the patient very carefully. That’s critical.

          • Catma

            Terribly sorry for your loss. And, again, I believe the case has been made that these drugs are responsible. Whether it is an underlying disease being exacerbated by the drug, or a side effect of the drug without symptoms, doesn’t matter. It’s the ultimate end result and should be prescribed under the utmost scrutiny. I think physcians are too quick to prescribe, get charmed (i.e., financial gain) by the manufacturer reps, and don’t know enough about the drug.

            A tragic, unneccesary loss.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Uh no, the case has not been “made” that the drugs are responsible. Read Rich Pasco’s comment.You cannot connect the dots on such flimsy evidence. 80 or so cases is not compelling evidence when you have thousands of people that use these drugs. We don’t see thousands of people mass murdering or committing suicide. In many of the cases the author cited the perpetrator of the criminal activity was only taking the meds for a short period of time. Many of these meds take weeks to begin working. Chances are their symptoms finally got so bad that a parent took them to the doctor for help. Psychiatrists are the doctors that prescribe the drugs and the majority of them are very cognizant of what they’re doing. This isn’t Valium we’re talking about. There are rigorous standards before any drug can be released for mass use. Not only that but Prozac has been around for over 30 years. Many others as well. So I think you are misinformed.

          • Agalag

            I agree. Millions of people worldwide take these drugs with minimal effects. The fact that all of these kids in the article were on some type of psychotropic drugs, only proves that they had serious mental disorders to begin with.

          • Clayton Cramer

            I am very sorry to hear that. One of the downsides of the development of SSRI antidepressants is that their physical side effects were so minor compared to previous generations of such drugs that people who were not specialists (such as family physicians) felt comfortable prescribing them. There are risks, and doctors may not be effective at explaining those risks. In some cases, extended family members might benefit from knowing about those risks, to keep a closer eye on the patient.

            I had a friend many years ago who started taking Prozac for severe depression, and it helped a lot. But then he started having dreams that were clearly homicidal/suicidal in their intent. When I pointed that out, he stopped taking the Prozac and divorced instead (because that was the real source of his depression).

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            So are you a family physician or a psychiatrist because clearly you must be a doctor since your friend listened to you and not the doctor who prescribed the meds?

          • Clayton Cramer

            No, but when I pointed the not very subtle symbolism of the dream, he realized the danger involved.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            So sorry for your loss. Really. I’m sure, though, that it makes you feel better to believe that it was the medication that caused it. It may well have, but there is no way to prove that. People with suicidal thoughts often don’t discuss it with anyone. I never did. Not even to my psychiatrists because I was afraid they would commit me to a mental institution and I didn’t want to do that. It may be that the medication for your son was not the right one or that it hadn’t taken full effect yet. Sometimes it takes 6 weeks for these things to work. What he probably needed that he didn’t get was more careful supervision from his doctor and more time with a therapist (if he was even seeing a therapist). The problem that I see is that the government has withheld much needed funding both for research and for patient care in the area of mental health. Personally I think that anyone who is depressed, anxious, or has any type of mental problem and begins taking medication should see their doctor and/or therapist 2 – 3 times a week until they are stabilized and then once a week for a few months. Again, I am sorry for your loss.

          • Todd Noel

            Not to upset you John, but many people never will. My own farher hid his illness well. His suicide was very well planned and he made sure all his affairs were in order before shooting himself in the head. This is not unusual. He was not taking SSRIs or any form of medication for mental health issues.

          • Kate

            DJ- I’m so sorry about the loss of your son. Anxiety is one of those mental illnesses that always leads to depression whereas the opposite (depression leads to anxiety) seldom occurs. Sadly, suffering from anxiety almost always leads to suicidal ideations (SI). As a medical professional and one who struggles with anxiety disorder, I know how difficult it can be to find the right treatment (medication, therapy, etc) as every human being does not respond to medications the same way. Unfortunately, one must be on a medication for an amount of time to know whether it is working or not (example: most SSRI’s take 6-8 weeks to get to a therapeutic level in your body). That is why there are so many medications on the market, because what may work for me may not work for you, or the side effects of a medication may not bother you but for me they are intolerable.
            When I first sat down and spoke about my anxiety to my nurse practitioner, she made me promise her that I would be as patient as I possibly could since the first medication she wanted me to take may not be the right one for me, but I needed to promise to give her time (and myself) to find the right medication and the right dose. It took a few months for me to get better and I am grateful everyday that I didn’t kill myself during that horrible period before I found a medication that worked for me and a therapist who I “clicked” with. I am truly sorry that your son took his own life, and although this may not give you any comfort, I’d like to tell you what your brain tells you when you are suicidial. It only makes sense to those whose minds are “sick” or “ill”, but when you are struggling with anxiety non-stop and you become so depressed thinking you will never feel “normal”, happy, content, carefree, calm or joy ever again, you feel like dying would be doing everyone around you a service. Your sick (mentally ill brain) mind erroneously tells you that by ending your life, you family, spouse, children, parents, friends, neighbors and co-workers will be sad for a short time, but will move on and find someone else to fill your place in their world. I know it makes zero sense to people with healthy brains/minds, but that is how you honestly feel when you are suicidial due to mental illness. You think you are doing something good for those you love and no matter how many times they tell you otherwise, you think your death will help them to be happier and they will move on quickly.
            DJ, nothing you could have said or done would have changed what your son did. I just wish he would have held on a little longer until he could have found the treatment that was right for him. My heart goes out to you and I hope my explaination was helpful to you. God bless you.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Exactly. Or the meds just have enough time to take full effect.

          • Dawn Stickell Wilson

            I agree in Adults this is true but in children it should be illegal. A kid can’t buy cigarettes until they are 18 but the drs can put them on crap that can and a lot of the time messes them up for the rest of their lives.

          • CC

            I do agree….more caution does need to be used with kids and medications.

          • Savas

            You might not be wrong in some cases. However, I’ve been on SSRIs since I was about fourteen years old and I would be lying if I said they have been detrimental to my body and mind. Compounding this, I smoke and am on a prescription for adderall. After all the conflicting stories I have heard, it is my belief that all psychoactive drugs in general effect everybody differently.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Absolutely. Which makes my point that the taking the meds should be monitored especially in the very beginning. And on top of that, not all meds will continue to work the same way as time goes on, for various reasons, and may need to be changed.

          • Darcie

            I started a similar drug about a month ago.. and I feel much happier. If anything, I feel more.. definitely not less! This post scared me a little until I read the comments.

          • Cindy Wood

            i guess you are the lucky one who actually needed the drug and the right amount was prescribed and i’m happy for you. but i have a family member who has spent her entire life on a cocktail of SSRI’s prescribed by a known pill-pusher dr., and now as a young adult, she is on disability and never leaves the house. she tries to get off of everything but it has been so long, she seems to go back. i question the integrity and professionalism of the pill pusher dr. and my family member is not the only person i know who he has medicated right out of their mind.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Unfortunately, one bad apple…I feel for your relative. I have similar situations in my family. The wrong meds can really screw a person up. I hope she can find a good doctor who can help her/him.

          • Mr. Cloud

            Of course there are CC. I smoked for 32 years and have no mass in my lungs…yet. However, a woman who smokes is 25.7 times more likely and a man who smokes 25 times more likely to get lung cancer than those who don’t. Tobacco is responsible for 20% of all early deaths each year. Go ahead a play those odds if you wish….down wind and in an open area.

          • CC

            That is not the point….the point is NOT ALL smokers get lung cancer and NOT ALL people on these medications commit murder!

          • Mr. Cloud

            That is exactly the point, CC. Some percentage of smokers will never get lung cancer or heart disease. Some percentage of psychotropic drugs will not have an adverse reaction. But, we’re looking at something a bit broader than your personal anecdote which offers absolutely miniscule and useless information when applied to a whole society.

          • CC

            Exactly…your smoking centered comments and statistics is useless to the conversation about psychotropic drugs. The topic of the entire discussion is psychotropic drugs….smoking was a topic chosen for comparison’s sake. The generalization of everyone committing mass murders while on these drugs IS the topic. I have my opinion and you have yours. Not trying to solve the worlds’ problems with my miniscule and useless information.

          • Tommy

            Well, some might argue that tobacco is a psychotropic drug as it does act on and change the chemical composition of the brain. And, the article didn’t say that “everyone” who’s committed mass murder was on psychotropic drugs. If there are 100 mass murderers and 10 weren’t on such drugs, that gives the victims a 10% chance that their murderer isn’t medicated, but it certainly raises an alarm about the possible drug reactions of the 90%. If there are 100 smokers and 10 don’t die of cancer, that gives smokers a 10% chance to not die of cancer (or heart disease, etc.). It won’t happen to everyone, of course, just 90%. Wanna play the odds? (Do keep in mind that my percentages are for illustration only – I haven’t looked up the actuals). You’re the one who made the analogy; I think you have to live with it. In fact, it’s a good analogy for your point…but your point misses the point.

          • Tommy

            By the way, they’re not my smoking-centered comments. They’re my responses to your smoking-centered comments.

          • Pickles

            I think they meant “funeral mass” after trying to fly.

          • ohheysarahnichole

            Mass = weight on regards to him flying not cancer……..

          • Anh

            C’mon, from your profile pic you look to be a mature adult! Smoking 50 years isn’t bad?! Smoking isn’t harmful?!
            How about I say every time I drive I text my buddies about my stupid day BUT never have been in an accident, totally safe to text while driving! Not!!!!

          • CC

            No where did I say it is not harmful. Read the entire statement and then the following statement where I misunderstood the meaning of mass. ALL smokers DO NOT get lung cancer and ALL people on these medications DO NOT commit murders.

          • Avery

            You are missing the point. It is about generalizing from anecdotal evidence.

          • Dan Cooper

            And for him it would, might be, true

          • Cindy Wood

            but there is always the future

          • Dawn Stickell Wilson

            No I am a smoker and I know full well that smoking is not harmless. When you put a teen on something mind altering their already going threw normal chemical changes just going threw puperty so let’s add some psychotic drug in the mix and watch what happens. Being married to a pill junkie for years has tault me a lot. Luckily after being punched in my face my husband woke up and got help. Unless you have experienced what these pills can do first hand you most likely can’t begin to understand.

          • vrahnos

            I have been smoking two packs for the last 50+ years and I still enjoy good health.So I guess that blows your theroy?

          • Cindy Wood

            don’t push your luck. my father smoked for over 50 years and died of lung cancer 5 years after he quit. a friend’s father died 15 years after he quit. i smoked 37 years and quit 14 yrs ago. i’m knocking on wood as i speak

          • vrahnos

            That is good for you that you quit smoking.You just may get lucky and live a long time.I don’t care to live a very long life for there is health problems that come on after we turn 65 and out mental health goes downhill from there and ending up in alhamers with a mental capacty of a baybe.No thank you for that kind of life.I am 58 now as well.

          • Cindy Wood

            i’m not 58. your math is as bad as your spelling. i’m 65. i quit my 3 pack-a-day habit when i was 51 because i couldn’t breath. so, good luck to you too and i hope you don’t die as painful a death as my father did. my mental health is fine so far. how’s yours?

          • vrahnos

            Mine is good so far.I smoke a pack an a half a day.My breathing is still fairly good too.

          • Cindy Wood

            good for you

          • vrahnos


          • vrahnos


          • Cindy Wood

            i don’t think she is saying that her experience applies to everyone, rather that too many kids are taking too many drugs. when i was a kid, and that was a long time ago, parents and doctors weren’t dishing all this crap out like candy, and i don’t remember any school shootings, mass murders, murder/suicides etc, perpetrated by kids. drugs, both prescribed and illegal street, together with the availability of guns, are going to be the end of society as i once knew it. actually, that has already happened.

          • Troy

            I agree with u Heather, these Drs are so over the top and ready to just prescribe medications too people that truly don’t really even need them.But just like everything in this world,it’s all about the damn money and kickbacks! Drs don’t ever wanna take the time to actually examine people and find out really what may be wrong,instead they just give us more damn prescriptions,, that are killing us! Not to mention,all these prescriptions they are giving us,is nothing more than a bunch of chemical’s that are the main cause of all the cancer’s that are killing us! It’s time people to wake the hell up,and stand up too all these Drs and pharmasudical companies,and say no we don’t want your drugs,they are killing us in many different way’s!! I’m so sick of people dying from nothing more simple than being fed a bunch of drugs that are not called for!! Someone please prove me wrong, I’m waiting too hear this explanation!!

          • Ally

            Actually doctors prescribe them to save their asses, because they know that if someone comes into their office complaining of depression and they don’t give them the drug and the person goes home and kills themself, they can be sued by the family for not taking the proper actions. You can refuse to take the medication if you so choose, but doctors will prescribe it because of the sue-happy culture. And Rich is right, all of these medications come with warnings that they make you feel more motivated to do things, and unfortunately when you are depressed that can mean motivating you to hurt yourself or others. As someone who has had impulses to hurt themself and been in therapy with someone who was having urges to hurt others, the drug doesn’t MAKE you do something. You choose whether or not to get help in dealing with those urges. If you look into any of these people’s cases, you would know that they had severe social issues, and their actions can more likely be attributed to bullying, social isolation or abuse, rather than the drugs they were taking to deal with what other people in their lives were doing to them.

          • waltinseattle

            we need more suits on the other side that equation, mis prescribing as well as non-prescribing cases!

          • justmamajoan

            As a 40 years in practice nurse practitioner, I can tell you there are no kick backs for prescribing medications. Persons are getting from cancer for multiple reasons. The most common is that we are living longer and as a person lives longer their ability to fight off cancer through their own immune system weakens. Tobacco use is a tremendous cause for several types of cancer including lung, bladder, throat, esophageal and stomach cancer. I would be delighted if no one ever became ill again from any cause. I wish no one ever needed medications. But, I am not going to fail to offer what is scientifically proven to benefit a person and hopefully improve their quality of life or save their life.

          • Wisedoc

            We are not getting cancer because we are living longer… We are getting cancer because we have poor lifestyle habits that initiate and promote cancer… I can tell you that medical doctors did indeed get lots of kickbacks for prescribing medications… The golden 80’s and 90’s is where many medical doctors where flown around the world on private planes, taken lavish vacations without spending a $ of their own money… All paid for by Big Pharma… You as a NP may not of received any kickbacks, that does not mean they did not happen…

          • John Keegan

            Yes, let’s not let medical statistics get in the way of your conspiracy theories…*rolls eyes*

          • Gregory Miller

            Yes, let’s not confuse the issue with facts! Big Pharma doesn’t make life saving medications, they are killing us all! AGHHHH! John, that is sarcasm. I completely agree with you. Sometimes it’s hard to detect sarcasm on the posts because some people ARE that crazy.

          • DBS

            Out of all the people responding how many of you experts has been on any of these meds?

          • Dbs

            I have been on Effexor for twenty years. Unless you know what people go thru you have no clue!

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Amen to that.

          • Gregory Miller

            I have! Happy I had them. But none of that matters. Statistically, people with mental health issues are helped more than not.

          • Cindy Wood

            who said they aren’t making life saving drugs? i thought the conversation was about over-medicating children. perhaps you don’t know anybody who was over-medicated with SSRI’s as a youth.

          • Gregory Miller

            Firstly, a LOT of people on here have said that. Secondly, no, the conversation was NOT initially about over medicating children. It’s just another little avenue we’ve gone down. The issue is whether or not the implication in this article that the violence was secondary to the shootings (causative) or correlative. I know plenty of doctors over prescribe. I know many people who, for example, are given anxiety meds when they feel anxious without also getting counseling and CBT training. But that’s also what happens when you use your primary instead of a proper therapist. But that isn’t relevant here

          • Cindy Wood

            A LITTLE AVENUE?????? don’t you think that one dr over-medicating a child, is on dr too many?

          • Cindy Wood

            A LITTLE AVENUE?????? don’t you think that one dr over-medicating a child, is on dr too many?

          • Gregory Miller

            That’s not really the point of this article, is it? That’s what I was pointing out so leave your indignant responses at the door. It makes you look manipulative. I do not think you row out an entire body if science because some doctors over prescribe. I think you have regulatory authorities that hep to guard against it, and we do. If we threw out all science every time someone made a mistake or behaved unethically, we would never, ever advance. Shit happens. Not to be callous, but yeah, doctors are sometimes shitty. We don’t shut down paths for the overwhelming majority to experience relief because of the very seldom shitty doctor.

          • Cindy Wood

            when my mother was 14 in 1937, how strong was the regulatory authority, or did one exist

          • Gregory Miller

            I doubt their was one at all. Psychiatry was in its infancy back then. And in the 1980s, when I worked in a large facility with people with disabilities and dual diagnosis with psych issues, we dealt with the life time of fall out of the torture of psychiatry from those days. Shock treatment, cold showers and over medicating were the treatments du jour. now we are very careful with medication, not just sedating people but trying very hard and being very conservative with the amount of meds we give. Just to suggest an alternative, and I don’t know this to be true, but it could be possible that these shooting are an us intended consequence of that conservative approach. Perhaps the medications were not of such a dose as to be of a therapeutic level because of concerns these days of over medicating. I can’t say whether that is true or not, but it does pose an interesting question and also illustrates other possibilities of the issue rather than the single minded suggestion in this article.

          • Cindy Wood

            i hope you aren’t suggesting gong back to lobotomy. just kidding, don’t get your panties in a wad

          • Gregory Miller

            You kills me! I think you are awesome and am happy to have made your acquaintance. Thanks for the FB request, which I accepted. And what a Surprise! You live in one of my favorite places on the planet!

          • Cindy Wood

            i’m not at all surprised that i live in your favorite city. once i checked out your facebook page i had a sneaking suspicion that that would be your response. so, when are you coming to visit OUR fovorite city. we’ll have to get together for an adult beverage. are you a bear or just a body builder?

          • Cindy Wood

            i enjoyed our sparring match. i give up you won. but you have to admit, nobody else you called an idiot fought back. friend me on facebook

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            I still think it’s because we’ve dropped the ball as far as patient care for the mentally ill. I wish I could find the article I read recently that said that almost of all of the major mental health care facilities for the poor have been shut down in California (where I currently live). I believe that happened in the 80s. Correct me if I’m wrong, since it seems that you have first hand experience in that area. We have so many homeless because they have no where to go. Giving someone a pill is not the whole complete answer. Just like shock treatment or anything else. That’s where I think we’ve gone wrong.

          • Gregory Miller

            You are correct. The population in mental health facilities were deinstitutionsalized during the Reagan administration without appropriate levels of community supports. This move was lamented before it occurred, and the resulting consequences were predicted, lamented while it was occurring and is still lamented by people in the mental health field. Currently it is extremely difficult to get a psychiatric bed for a patient. Hospitals that did open locked psychiatric units have closed them all across the country, and the few remaining beds are virtually impossible to get. The ludicial aspect is also problematic. Probably in response to prior abuses in the commitment process, it is not virtually impossible to get an involuntary commitment. No, I di have to point out that while releasing the clients from psychiatric hospitals did result in many of them becoming homeless, I don’t believe that it’s true that homeless people are responsible for most of the crimes that we re talking about.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Of course it’s relevant. I didn’t even know primary care physicians could prescribe SSRIs or anti-depressants. Maybe it depends on what state you live. If that is the case, then that’s the first thing that should change. I think the discussion was about the article in which the author implies that it is the Anti-depressant drugs that are causing people to go out en masse and kill other people – not the guns. If they didn’t have guns I guess they’d just use a bomb or a knife or their bare hands. The point is that the author doesn’t have enough credible evidence to support his claim, his title is misleading, and he doesn’t know enough about statistics, data analysis, or mental health care to even come close to being an authority on the subject.

          • Gregory Miller

            You are full of crap. This is just a lie.

          • Susan Forest-Rode


          • nh

            Reminder. The ’80s and 90’s are now 20-30 years ago. I hardly doubt trips that doctors and nurses may or may not have been on that long ago affect their prescribing habits. But thanks for bringing it up.

          • perkib2

            As a medical professional, I can tell you those days are long gone. There are strict rules for pharma and medical device companies now. You can’t even bring lunch without providing education, yet less being flown around the world in private planes. Every dollar a doctor receives via food, gifts etc is now recorded.

          • PinkIsTheBomb

            Very true. Drug reps are not welcome in many doctor’s offices anymore, and even the free pens/toys/magnets can’t be used/displayed at my workplace. No free trips, or free food, either.

          • Cindy Wood

            supposedly. don’t be naive. the world is full of very rich crooks with accounts in the Caymans and Switzerland.

          • Avery

            Even if they did happen in the 80’s and 90’s, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they happen now. If they do happen now, that doesn’t mean it is widespread.

          • Cindy Wood

            not all dr.s take kick-backs and not all dr’s are pill pushers, but there’s plenty of that going around, so careful where you take your kids and what they give them

          • Avery

            “…not all dr’s are pill pushers, but there’s plenty of that going around…”

            How much of that is going around? Can you point to some data?

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            And where is your proof? How many are you talking about? You don’t think any of these doctors would be worried about malpractice lawsuits for prescribing the wrong medication?

          • waltinseattle

            save the life, then improve the life quality. no life, no quality.

          • justmamajoan

            Walt, I think I am reading that we are on the same page. Save the life and the the quality should improve. Whatever is the best proven treatment whatever the illness is what I recommend. I do have patients who decline proven, scientific treatments. I don’t have any right to coerce or try to force them accept what I recommend.

          • waltinseattle

            this force issue is an emense chasm like guns is, and as set in stone for some who espouse extreme liberty.
            i would rather one was forced to be on meds than left free, end up in prisonn and die being forced out of a cell. forced to live is kinder than allowed to die. there is an entire literature just in online comments. we are working on “meed for treatment” to replace “immediate danger” as the legal test. were behind the western world!
            whats best depends on doc, quality of diagnosis, age of patient, facilities resources, money and beds money and beds. some are denied meds, othets over meded, others wromg meded..

            its a hands on im sure you know, as the caretaker who sees how the patient responds. i hope your docs listen well

            where do you live? were interested in whats going on in all the 50 states but we’re prevalent in ca az forme reason. if you would, let me refer you to some of our activist and suppeort lists. many have at home children , many jailed sons. many are on boards, in professions im waltinseattle@gmail and my son succumbed at 40.

          • justmamajoan

            In Arkansas the best we can do is get a 48 hour hold for a person who is found to be at risk for injuring themselves or others. We lost the war when laws were passed years ago that allowed mentally ill patients to refuse treatment no matter how ill they were. The dichotomy is that those with TB can be jailed for not taking their medication as prescribed because it is a communicable disease and places others at risk. Severe mental illness also places the person afflicted and others at risk. There is a fine line between personal choice and the safety of others. I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m so sorry for those who live on the streets and under bridges because they chose to leave their treatment program and stop their medications when they were lucid and then lost their lucidity when they stopped treatment.

          • NukeWaste

            How many doctors that you know have standing DNR commands on their paperwork? Almost every one that I know.

          • justmamajoan

            When did you write orders at a hospital? No doctor can write DNR orders without the directive from the patient or the patients selected person who was chosen to give permission if the patient is unable to do so.

          • Gregory Miller

            I can’t say for sure, but I think he might be referencing the fact those the majority of doctors have filed their own DNR for themselves. How that is relevant. No idea.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Yes, I believe that is what he meant.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            There’s a good reason for that, too. They see what happens to patients every day.

          • pig nut

            Isn’t tobacco use in the u.s. A contributing factor rather than a cause as tobacco and cancers are not related the same ways in others countries where diets differ from the u.s.?

          • Cindy Wood

            now we’ve gone from ssri’s and children on killing sprees to tobacco. watch The Insider. it’s based on a true story and might change your mind about the tobacco industry

          • jen
          • Gregory Miller

            Filing a lawsuit means nothing. Lawsuits happen all the time. Just because a lawsuit is filed doesn’t make someone guilty. What about the ethics and license boards?

          • Gregory Miller

            And are you aware that often times the coverage of a lawsuit is simply the press release of the plaintiff? Most of the time, that is just a reprint of the press release and the reason for it is to put pressure on the defendant to settle early to avoid more bad press.

          • justmamajoan

            Lawsuits? Can you say ambulance chasers? Yes there should be lawsuits when malpractice is involved, but many good medications have been taken off the market that I would give anything to have back even for myself. Where I work there are no luncheons, no free pens, no kickbacks. Free samples of new drugs yes. Do you know how much it helps to be able to give a patient a week of a new medication before they have to pay for it in order to see if it is beneficial, or to be able to give samples to someone who has lost their insurance or is under tremendous financial stress and can’t afford their medicine? Our/my general rule of thumb is to wait about 2 years after a new drug has hit the market prior to prescribing it unless it is a totally new class with benefits that are excellent for a patient who desperately needs it.

          • Crustylugholes

            Rubbish. Of course there are kick backs. The pharmaceutical reps visit the Doctor’s offices and give them samples. Along with those samples there are the ‘luncheons’ to ‘discuss’ the new drug. Or the trip out on a dinner cruise ship. There are plenty of kick backs. And plenty of Rx reps invading the Doctor’s offices armed with the enticements to lure the good Doctor’s in. In addition to mere food and experience gifts, The reps have been well educated in presenting their Rx of the day as some new and wonderful miraculous item that any Doctor would love to prescribe.

          • minnie

            Clearly you are stuck in the 90’s prior to the sunshine act being passed. There is no way or how a pharma rep can provide anything accept an edicational lunch or invite to a monitored dinner program which is all reported to the FDA. Pharmaceutical reps are not doing any harm. They are providing scientific information, an equal balance of good and bad to educate the doctor. What the doctor does off label is their own choice- that’s where the patient is at fault for taking medication without any indication of their symptoms. Every single day pharmaceutical companies are working to find a way to improve the PATIENTS quality of life or give the PATIENTS access to more efficacious tolerable drugs.

          • Cindy Wood

            and the drs get a pass too?

          • lhathorn1

            I must be in the wrong office. Cruise ships? Kickbacks? It’s hard enough just seeing patients, without all the fantasy land ideas you’re talking about. Samples? Yeah, of blood pressure and diabetes medicines and cough and cold meds. What, can you sell that stuff and buy a yacht?

          • Cindy Wood

            no, you can’t sell them and buy diddely. but you can push and over-prescribe them for your buddies. maybe you’re not like that, but can you explain why so many kids are prescribed so many SSRI’s? cuz that is where this conversation started. do you see any connection with mass school shootings and over-medicated kids?

          • Dr.

            Most doctors do not have drug reps, and are also not allowed to take anything from them. So that is old news you are talking about. Also, you have no idea how much it helps some patients when doctors get free samples of drugs. These are patients with no insurance and no money, and without these free samples, would not have the opportunity to be helped. Don’t talk about what you don’t know. It makes you look stupid.

          • Laura

            If I can get a free sample of symbicort every once in a while, i feel like I won the lotto! Lol

          • justin

            What? You just contradicted yourself. It makes you look stupid. Then again most doctors I know don’t do anything so they would not know what the hell is going on anyway.

          • Gregory Miller

            And how many doctors do you know don’t do anything? I work in the field. Doctors work very hard. You are an idiot.

          • Jason

            I’m not sure of the amount of doctors who receive it, but some companies have recently started disclosing the amount given to practitioners and institutions, due to legal settlements. Around 2.5 billion dollars reported by 15 drug companies. The number is probably quite more when you tak into account that most companies do not report it. This has been public knowledge since 2012. I’m not completely disagreeing with you of course, as I don’t have an exact number for “Most doctors”.

          • perkib2

            Thank you, this kick-back talk is making me nuts.

          • Gregory Miller

            You are crazy nuts. Most of what you say is overblown and exaggerated. ANd virtually every clinic forbids their physicians to engage in such ethical compromises. ANd have you ever worked in the field? Rare is the doctor that has time to go out to lunch, particularly with a pharmaceutical rep. As for samples, a whole lot of people who cannot afford certain medications or whose insurance plans don’t cover them are very thankful for samples.

          • Danielle Tingley

            My doctor has admitted to me that most of the doctors offices today are corrupeted by pharmaceutical reps I don’t know where you live but pretty much every doctors office I have been in is promoting selected drugs everywhere from posters on the wall pens hand soap clipboards everything has the name of some drug on it…..also we have commercials promoting medications so many times patients come to doctors requesting certain meds because they think they need them….another thing that is a fact is that companies do not have to publish all of there studies to the fda or most medical journals so they could have 20 negative studies and 5 postive and publish all the good results and like 2 negative results which also makes it very difficult for doctors to find valid information not all doctors are corrupt but there is definitely a serious problem YOU are the crazy one if u cannot see the influence that big pharma has in this country…my doctor also refuses to prescribe ssris and anti anxiety medications people need to stop being lazy stop feeling sorry for themselves and stop turning to a pill for everything I was once prescribed all kinds of those harmful drugs but I stopped and fixed my problems by myself your mind is a very powerful thing

          • Gregory Miller

            pretty much everything you said is BS. If your doctor told you that, which I doubt, then he is as crazy as you are. I actually work in the field and support people with mental health problems and have for 25 years. I have literally worked with hundreds of doctors and none of what you suggest is true. If you think that a doctor is going to be induced to prescribe a medication that he doesn’t think will work and risk a lawsuit for some pens and a dinner, then you are truly not in reality. And when you say things like your doctor refuses to prescribe SSRIs and “anti-anxiety medications” (which is what SSRIs are used for) because people need to “stop being lazy feeling sorry for themselves”, frankly I think you are full of crap. I don’t believe for a second that a qualified physician characterizes mental illness issues int he way that you are suggesting. If he does, he is ignorant. Rather, I think that is something you made up in your little unsophisticated mind because you think it bolsters your position. It doesn’t. It just makes you look more ignorant.

          • Danielle Tingley

            why would there be a lawsuit all of the negative side effects are clearly listed when you get your prescription they cover their ass so when something does happen because of the drug they can i say they warned you it could happen

            Here is the list of warnings

            from the fda website just on zoloft ZOLOFT and other antidepressant medicines may cause serious side effects, including:
            1. Suicidal thoughts or actions:

            ZOLOFT and other antidepressant medicines may increase suicidal thoughts or actions in some children, teenagers, or young adults within the first few months of treatment or when the dose is changed.

            Depression or other serious mental illnesses are the most important causes of suicidal thoughts or actions.

            Watch for these changes and call your healthcare provider right away if you notice:

            New or sudden changes in mood, behavior, actions, thoughts, or feelings, especially if severe.

            Pay particular attention to such changes when ZOLOFT is started or when the dose is changed.
            Keep all follow-up visits with your healthcare provider and call between visits if you are worried about symptoms.
            Call your healthcare provider right away if you have any of the following symptoms, or call 911 if an emergency, especially if they are new, worse, or worry you:
            attempts to commit suicide
            acting on dangerous impulses
            acting aggressive or violent
            thoughts about suicide or dying
            new or worse depression
            new or worse anxiety or panic attacks

            feeling agitated, restless, angry or irritable

            trouble sleeping

            an increase in activity or talking more than what is normal for you
            • other unusual changes in behavior or mood
            Call your healthcare provider right away if you have any of the following symptoms, or call 911 if an emergency. ZOLOFT may be associated with these serious side effects:
            2. Serotonin Syndrome This condition can be life-threatening and may include:
            agitation, hallucinations, coma or other changes in mental status
            coordination problems or muscle twitching (overactive reflexes)
            racing heartbeat, high or low blood pressure
            sweating or fever
            nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea

            muscle rigidity
            3. Severe allergic reactions:
            trouble breathing
            swelling of the face, tongue, eyes or mouth
            rash, itchy welts (hives) or blisters, alone or with fever or joint pain
            4. Abnormal bleeding: ZOLOFT and other antidepressant medicines may increase your risk of bleeding or bruising, especially if you take the blood thinner warfarin (Coumadin®, Jantoven®), a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAIDs, like ibuprofen or naproxen), or aspirin.
            5. Seizures or convulsions
            6. Manic episodes:
            • greatly increased energy
            • severe trouble sleeping
            • racing thoughts
            • reckless behavior
            • unusually grand ideas
            • excessive happiness or irritability
            • talking more or faster than usual
            7. Changes in appetite or weight. Children
            and adolescents should have height and
            weight monitored during treatment.
            8. Low salt (sodium) levels in the blood.
            Elderly people may be at greater risk for
            this. Symptoms may include:
            • headache
            • weakness or feeling unsteady
            • confusion, problems concentrating or
            thinking or memory problems
            Do not stop ZOLOFT without first talking to
            your healthcare provider. Stopping ZOLOFT
            too quickly may cause serious symptoms
            • anxiety, irritability, high or low mood,
            feeling restless or changes in sleep habits
            • headache, sweating, nausea, dizziness
            • electric shock-like sensations, shaking,
            What is ZOLOFT?
            ZOLOFT is a prescription medicine used to treat
            depression. It is important to talk with your
            healthcare provider about the risks of treating
            depression and also the risks of not treating it.
            You should discuss all treatment choices with
            your healthcare provider. ZOLOFT is also used
            to treat:
            • Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)
            • Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
            • Panic Disorder
            • Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
            • Social Anxiety Disorder
            • Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD)
            Talk to your healthcare provider if you do not
            think that your condition is getting better with
            ZOLOFT treatment.
            Who should not take ZOLOFT?
            Do not take ZOLOFT if you:
            • are allergic to sertraline or any of the
            ingredients in ZOLOFT. See the end of this
            Medication Guide for a complete list of
            ingredients in ZOLOFT.
            • take the antipsychotic medicine pimozide
            (Orap®) because this can cause serious
            heart problems.
            • take Antabuse® (disulfiram) (if you are
            taking the liquid form of ZOLOFT) due to
            the alcohol content.
            • take a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
            (MAOI). Ask your healthcare provider or
            pharmacist if you are not sure if you take an
            MAOI, including the antibiotic linezolid.
            • Do not take an MAOI within 2 weeks of
            stopping ZOLOFT unless directed to do so
            by your physician.
            • Do not start ZOLOFT if you stopped taking
            an MAOI in the last 2 weeks unless directed
            to do so by your physician.
            People who take ZOLOFT close in time to
            an MAOI may have serious or even lifethreatening
            side effects. Get medical help
            right away if you have any of these
            • high fever
            • uncontrolled muscle spasms
            • stiff muscles
            • rapid changes in heart rate or blood
            • confusion
            • loss of consciousness (pass out)
            What should I tell my healthcare provider
            before taking ZOLOFT? Ask if you are not
            Before starting ZOLOFT, tell your healthcare
            provider if you:
            • Are taking certain drugs such as:
            • Medicines used to treat migraine
            headaches such as:
            o triptans
            • Medicines used to treat mood, anxiety,
            psychotic or thought disorders, such as:
            o tricyclic antidepressants
            o lithium
            o diazepam
            o SSRIs
            o SNRIs
            o antipsychotic drugs
            o valproate

            Medicines used to treat seizures such as:
            o phenytoin

            Medicines used to treat pain such as:
            o tramadol

            Medicines used to thin your blood such as:
            o warfarin

            Medicines used to control your
            heartbeat such as :
            o propafenone
            o flecainide
            o digitoxin

            Medicines used to treat type II diabetes such as:
            o tolbutamide

            Cimetidine used to treat heartburn

            Over-the-counter medicines or
            supplements such as:
            o Aspirin or other NSAIDs
            o tryptophan
            o St. John’s Wort

            have liver problems

            have kidney problems.

            have heart problems

            have or had seizures or convulsions

            have bipolar disorder or mania

            have low sodium levels in your blood

            have a history of a stroke

            have high blood pressure

            have or had bleeding problems

            are pregnant or plan to become pregnant. It is not known if ZOLOFT will harm your unborn baby. Talk to your healthcare provider about the benefits and risks of treating depression during pregnancy.

            are breast-feeding or plan to breast-feed. Some ZOLOFT may pass into your breast milk. Talk to your healthcare provider about the best way to feed your baby while taking ZOLOFT.
            Tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines that you take, including prescription and non-prescription medicines, vitamins, and herbal supplements. ZOLOFT and some
            What should I avoid while taking ZOLOFT?
            ZOLOFT can cause sleepiness or may affect your ability to make decisions, think clearly, or react quickly. You should not drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how ZOLOFT affects you. Do not drink alcohol while using ZOLOFT.
            What are the possible side effects of ZOLOFT?
            ZOLOFT may cause serious side effects, including:

            See “What is the most important information I should know about ZOLOFT?”

            Feeling anxious or trouble sleeping
            Common possible side effects in people who take ZOLOFT include:

            nausea, loss of appetite, diarrhea or indigestion

            change in sleep habits including increased sleepiness or insomnia

            increased sweating

            sexual problems including decreased libido and ejaculation failure

            tremor or shaking

            feeling tired or fatigued

            Other side effects in children and adolescents include:

            abnormal increase in muscle movement or agitation

            nose bleed

            urinating more often

            urinary incontinence

            aggressive reaction

            heavy menstrual periods

            possible slowed growth rate and weight change. Your child’s height and weight should be monitored during treatment with ZOLOFT.
            Tell your healthcare provider if you have any side effect that bothers you or that does not go away. These are not all the possible side effects of ZOLOFT. For more information, ask your healthcare provider or pharmacist.

            it even mentions that these are not even all of the side effects and why would they mention an negative effect if it had not been proven in a study

            also like someone else mentioned pharmaceutical reps are trained to sell drugs and present them to doctors as something that can help their patients and as i said it is often hard for doctors to get accurate information when in most medical journals companies are not required to publish all of their negative studies

            the psychiatrist that i saw previously who had been practicing for a long time told me that psychiatrists dont really practice talk therapy anymore i was in her office for less than 30 mins and she prescribed me like 5 different medications some were to balance out the other medications over my next several visits she kept raising my doses by the end of a couple months she had increased one of my medications by nearly 5x my starting dose how can someone diagnose someone talking to them for such a short time?

          • Gregory Miller

            Which clearly shows how ignorant you are. Didn’t I read somewhere that you are studying to be a paralegal? Regardless of the medication, the prescriber still has a duty to properly prescribe and monitor. The end

          • Danielle Tingley

            no not studying to be a paralegal……i just want people to wake up and see what big pharma is doing to people ……the center for disease control and prevention reports that there are more than 10,000 2 and 3 year old children have been diagnosed with ADHD and are being prescribed drugs like Ritalin and Adderall both very addictive habit forming drugs adderall is an amphetamine similar to speed that a great way to gain a customer for life get a child hooked on the shit while they are young…..does that really sound helpful or does it sound harmful why would any medical professional prescribe those kind of drugs to children so young but statistics show that it is happening on a mass scale more than 2.4 million in this country are being prescribed similar drugs for ADHD

          • lrowe22

            Conspiracy theorist ideas on overload! You are nuttier than a squirrel turd.

          • Gregory Miller

            Danielle, I agree that this is an issue. However, using terms like “big pharma” only turns people off to anything valid you may have to impart because that is nonsensical conspiracy theorizing lingo.
            And I agree that often times natural solutions are overlooked and not addressed. It is one of the reasons that when medications fail to treat a problem, the medication is changed rather than addressing lifestyle as a part of the issue. In this case, children under four cannot even be diagnosed with ADHD. And often their are natural ways that could alleviate the symptoms that parents don’t follow. You focus on this report but what is flawed about that is that their are other safeguards that you are ignoring that keep “big pharma” from shoving pills down people’s throats. You appear to lay the blame squarely on “big pharma” and ignore these safeguard, the two biggest of which are the parents and the doctors. The child wouldn’t be given medication in a vacuum, that meaning without the parent complaining about an issue in the first place. Are their just lazy parents who want calm children? Sure there are! But you have no idea how many amongst the statistic you cite actually do have issues. And I also want to point out that every American medical organization has expressed deep concerns of this. So industry and “big pharma” are not quite the conspiracy you suggest. And while I agree to some extent that people may over medicate or not address their lives in a more holistic manner, I am reminded of my dead brother who was behaviorally challenged when he was a child. My mom went to a naturopath, and their were very much fewer of them in the 1960s. My parents were advised that he likely had ADHD secondary to sensitivity of food preservatives. They were able to sustain a preservative free diet for some time with limited success. But back then, it was virtually impossible to live that way. And he was still a mean kid, just more manageable. And kids eat preservatives, period. To many opportunities. The doctor apparently thought that a life of deprivation of foods that everyone else eats was possible. So he never received medication. He grew up and continued to be a mean person. He went to prison when he was sixteen. He got out and abused other drugs and alcohol. He got married during his best years. In other words, he finally had a job. His wife left him seven years later because he was abusive and refused to let him see his child again. Eventually, he was homeless and prayed on our mother for money and was emotionally abusive toward her. It got to the point where no one wanted to ever be around him and finally she paid for him to go to Idaho to start over again. He just continued being unable to be part of normal society and going from job to job. He met another girl, took her as his wife and then she cheated on hi. He tried to shoot the person who she cheated with and went on a high speed chase from police. Eventually he was caught and jailed. This time it would be for a long time because of his record. He hung and killed himself in jail waiting to be arraigned. THIS is a story about someone who DIDNT receive medication. Sadly, their is no mechanism to know how many others suffered a horrible life when medication could be appropriate. I guess he should have just stopped being lazy. But his doctors, and my parents, insistence at not seeking medical solutions may ver well have doomed him. No big parham pushing pills down his throat. Just a miserable life.

          • Really

            I HIGHLY doubt this, ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) Is a problem of being unable to focus, being overactive and being hyper, so you’re telling me that the mother and or father of these 2 and 3 yr old kids are bringing them to a physician because they’re too hyper? I personally think ANY physician would laugh at them, young kids are suppose to be energetic and hyper, They’re not gonna prescribe a controlled substance to a 2 or 3 yr old, it’s a EXTREMELY Potent and addictive drug that many adults cannot even BEGIN to handle. I agree that big pharma is a fucked up industry and NEEDS to be stopped, but c’mon now, get a grip on reality, you really think physicians are really going to prescribe this very potent stimulant to a 2 and or 3 yr old? I don’t think so. You said “adderall is an amphetamine similar to speed” Well Adderall IS amphetamine, thus its generic name “Amphetamine”, Adderall is not “SIMULAR” to speed because it IS speed, speed is another name for amphetamine, and amphetamine is another name for Adderall.

          • Gregory Miller

            The issue with children under 4 being overprescribed is sadly true. But no professional organization supports it and they actually have gone on record to denounce that practice. So, no conspiracy, just bad doctors and bad parents.

          • really

            Personally i think children under 13 should not be prescribed Anything of the following

            Benzodiazepines – Alaprazolam (Xanax) Diazepam (Valum) Lorazepam (Ativan)

            Opiates – OxyCodone (Percocet) HyrdoCodone (Vicodin) Codeine ect.

            Stimulants – Adderall (Amphetamine) Ritilan (Methylphenidate) Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine)

          • Gregory Miller

            As a general rule, benzodiazepines and opiates are not prescribed for psychiatric care. They are prescribed for pain management only and usually for short term. If you have ever had a surgery you should know that these drugs are carefully controlled and physicians can get in a lot of regulatory trouble for overprescribing them.

          • Cindy Wood

            Gregory, of course you can get pain pills after surgery, in a limited dose, but the affects of pain meds are known. if you prescribe SSRIs to kids and don’t monitor them, how do you know the affects until there is a blood bath?

          • Gregory Miller

            The effects of different medications for pain are as well known as the effects of SSRIs. You don’t seem to know much about how these medications work. At any rate, with both of them, their are known uses and known adverse reactions. You might just as likely have an adverse reaction to a particular pain med as you would and SSRI. however, they are rare and no one has ever shown that they make you completely psychotic. In fact, a recent well respected study just showed that the chance of a mentally ill person committing violence is substantially reduced with medications. So, while you and everyone else has their personal story, they are the EXCEPTION, not the rule and SSRIs have never been associated or shown to create murderous psychosis.

          • Cindy Wood

            i know nothing about any meds cuz i don’t take them, but in comment after comment, people who have been prescribed one type of SSRI have had to switch to a different one. i’m just saying kids might not have the where-with-all to know if they are taking the wrong thing or dose, and say so. that is what this article says to me. if you put kids on the shit, monitor them. and all this increase in ADD- it’s almost a fashionable excuse for kids who don’t perform as well as their parents want them to. of course all of these mass murders were carried out by severely mentally ill kids, but it seems like a large percentage had just begun a SSRI or the dose had just been increased. as long as the life of one person could have been saved by monitoring a kid onSSRIs, i don’t understand your objection. i am not anti-drugs- i’m anti over prescribing by irresponsible pill-pushers

          • Gregory Miller

            Yes, if one SSRI doesn’t work you do have to try another. However, the problem with how you interpret this information is that people for whom they find the right medication and react as expected ARENT going to be apt to comment so thT is a pretty piss poor way to analyze information. As far as the increased diagnosis in ADHD, their are other likely explanations, such as the the likelihood that the science is more specific and the signs are more understood than before. And your suggesting its fashionable is just your own bias talking. You don’t know that to be true at all. You just think that. Well, that’s not science and it’s not information. Your way of approaching the world and just going with your feelings has never produced a productive answer to any question. My objection is people like you who know nothing about mental health or the process and assert that people who are laced on them are not monitored. They are, and it is required. Patients Re told all the time to report if they are feeling negative thoughts. But unfortunately, they only way to monitor people with mental health issues is to measure I’d they are feeling better and reporting accurately. No such tests exist to objectively determine how medications are working, with the exception of studies. On a real life, patient to patient basis, we rely on the patient to inform the prescriber on how they are feeling. And everyone who is prescribed an SSRI is monitored quarterly, because that is the typical period of time to know whether a med is working or not, but they are all told to report if they feel worse on the medications. All of that is how it works. My other objection is that people like you, who know nothing of the methods and systems and nothing of even the meds, asserts arrogantly what everyone SHOULD do, as though you have some wisdom to offer the process that practitioners and care givers in this area just haven’t thought about. How arrogant can you possibly get?

          • Cindy Wood

            somehow you aren’t making much sense to me any more. some of these kids had started taking ssris less than 10 days previous and one had had his dosage doubled just 5 days prior. you are talking 3 months before seeing how they are feeling. gimme a break, we’re talking about swick children.

          • Gregory Miller

            It typically takes that long before the medication is therapeutic. They are not prescribing sedatives and the action is not immediate. If you increase dosages too quickly you risk over medicating or making the patient toxic. Psych meds simply cannot be rushed like that. So you pose an interesting question, which I have responded to in my other answer to you. The issue may not be over medicating or wrong medication but perhaps not enough or too late in this persons psychiatric issues to effect a drop in desire to commit homicide.

          • Cindy Wood

            got it

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Again, as you already pointed out these people (Cindy Wood) do not know what they are talking about.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            I wish I could star your comment. I get so frustrated when people blame the meds when they don’t even understand how they work. On the flip side of that, some of these medications are time sensitive which means that they have to be taken at the same time every day. Kinda like some birth control pills…if you miss a dose you could become pregnant. If you miss a dose, or two, or take it too late in the day or too close to the previous dose you could mess up the chemical balance of the body.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            My feeling exactly. The bottom line is everyone thinks they know it all. I admit that I don’t know what really happens between all doctors and their patients or the pharmacy companies and the people they serve. However, I do know from my own experiences and that of my family members; several of which are bi-polar and several suffer from severe depression and/or anxiety, myself included. I have had bad doctors, good doctors, and great doctors. One needs to be an advocate for one’s own health. Young people, teenagers, are not always fully aware of how to do that. That is why it is important for their parents to monitor what is going on. The young man who killed his mother and then went to Sandy Hook Elementary School and started killing children had access to guns. If he did not have the access what would have happened? Could he have gone out and bought himself a gun? Several guns? Lots of ammunition? Would he have used something else other than a gun? And if so, would the victims have had a better chance at surviving? I pose these questions rhetorically because I believe that if he didn’t have the access to the guns things would have been a lot different and most, if not all, of those victims would still be alive today.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            It can take weeks for these types of drugs to fully take effect. Likely this is what happened. The intervention was a little too late or the person was not monitored closely enough when beginning the meds. It doesn’t necessarily follow that the doctor made a mistake in prescribing the meds.

          • PinkIsTheBomb

            You obviously don’t understand the biochemistry of the brain. ADHD is much more complicated than your description. Perhaps some kids don’t need meds, but some do. Pure science. Like any other drug, it’s effectiveness can vary from person to person. Medical supervision is critical.

          • Cindy Wood

            absolutely not. or a 3 year old

          • Cindy Wood

            and amphetamine is exactly what was given to my sister with hyperactive brain damage at the ripe old age of 3 and she died at the ripe old age of 8. that was in the 1950’s. this ain’t nothin new. the one that died didn’t have a mean bone in her body. but my “NORMAL” sister one year younger, was a nasty little brat and is now a self-pitying old woman.

          • Cindy Wood

            any statistics on how many kids were taking that crap 50 years ago? my sister who had hyperactive brain damage was, but i never knew of a single other kid that was. unfortunately, shfe died when she was 8.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Post the web address where you got this information please. Because I’d really like to read that.

          • Cindy Wood

            no, the end is not when the drug is administered, it is when some poor kid got too much of the wrong shit and goes on a shooting spree and then takes his own life. shrinks can no more diagnose you or monitor the effects of meds, if they only have 30 min to spare. so why is she so ignorant? sounds like a real-time experience to me. maybe you are the ignorant one

          • Gregory Miller

            Again, the END is, Cindy, when the doctor is monitoring. You cannot show, nor can this article or any of the people who have written their own anecdotes, that the medications CAUSED any of the shooting sprees but rather, the children were being treated for mental illness. Again, if you have asthma and are treated for it, but die of an asthma attach, it isn’t the TREATMENT that is responsible, it is the asthma. And again, I have worked with mental ill people for over twenty years and your assertions are flatly wrong. Real time experience, AKA anecdotal evidence, only applies to that individual. If you want to look at what the vast majority experience then you need to look to science and the studies. And yes, sometimes it happens that people are not monitored correctly. But not true for the very vast majority. So, you are ignorant as well. Unless, of course, you are going to claim some vast experience in mental health, and it wouldn’t surprise me if you did. But it wound the true I suspect.

          • Cindy Wood

            yes Mr. Mental Health, you are right again. I am ignorant. but you are wrong about me claiming to have any experience, much less VAST. my son sent me the article on facebook and i dared to have an opinion, which is, if one innocent life could have been spared in any of these incidents, by simply paying attention to what affect the medication you are prescribing is having on your patient, it’s worth it. you seem to think the article is about yourself but i saw it differently. i think it is about mentally ill KIDS who are possibly not getting the proper help and have easy access to guns which they don’t hesitate to use.

          • Gregory Miller

            Stop being manipulative. So, you have no information whatsoever except what you read here. You represent your “opinion” as fact, when it is not. By and large, mental health workers pay close attention to monitoring people for effectiveness and reactions. Parents are also a part of this process if the patient is under age, or even over age in some cases. So you r assertion that somehow these tragedies happened because the kids weren’t being monitored are not found in fact. And I promise you, if their wad even the most remote chance that was the case, no matter how extremely remote, lawsuits would be filed and a lot of them. These tragedies are not the result of the medications, or the doctors. They are a result of mental illness. And yes, health care isn’t perfect. No field is. The only difference is that the imperfections of health care are placed in a spotlight when someone is not “cured” of mental health issues and it gets worse. You have no clue, one way or another, as to the quality of. Mental health. Are for the examples in the article and the article is not balanced. You are just showing your bias and the end result you wasn’t to see because of your “opinions” and are working the problem backward.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Good analogy.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            It’s most likely the other way around, the kid needed meds way before he was actually prescribed them and they haven’t started working yet.

          • PinkIsTheBomb

            That’s what psychologists and MFTs are for…

          • Cindy Wood

            first of all, almost all of the first section of side effects sound like what the drug is supposed to be treating. how is that? secondly, most people just take what the dr prescribes in the dosage prescribed. no kid is actually going to read that litany of warnings? hope you aren’t going to that dr any more

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Uh, that’s what the parents are for! My kid isn’t going to take anything that I don’t know what the side effects could be and what I need to do if he gets into trouble. My older son was born with a heart defect and has had several surgeries, two open heart. He has taken various medications for that over the years and you damn well better believe that I know what he’s taking and what effect it’s suppose to have. He sees his doctor on a regular basis for his check ups and monitoring and the doctor monitors his growth as well as his activity levels, etc. My son is old enough now (17) that he can tell us if something seems wrong, which he has, and we take him to get it checked.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Geez us. Couldn’t you just have posted a site to go to? Just because a possible side effect is listed in the literature doesn’t mean the doctor, clinic, or hospital can’t be sued. A good psychiatrist will monitor the patient. A good psychiatrist will spend what time is necessary to diagnose and treat a patient. Good psychiatrists work in tandem with therapists as well to help their patients. If you don’t trust your doctor then find another one.

          • sara

            you are incredibly ignorant and insensitive if you think clinical depression, severe anxiety, PTSD, BPD, OCD or any other mental health condition is because a person feels sorry for themselves and is lazy. You are truly an ugly human being to hold such a bigoted, self righteous belief.

          • Danielle Tingley

            i was not trying to say that people with those conditions are lazy or need to stop feeling sorry for themselves i was more directing that towards the population in general sorry if it came across that way i have suffered from several of the conditions that you mentioned and i have found other ways to overcome them……if people could stop depending on things to make them happy and instead realized that they have all the power inside of themselves regardless of their situation to be happy and content

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            She said her doctor said that…but it seems that she believes him. Probably because he’s her doctor. But I felt really irritated by that comment as well.

          • robert

            danielle, you are an ignorant twit. “people need to stop being LAZY, stop feeling SORRY for themselves and stop TURNING TO A PILL for everything”. That kind of assinine statement shows a complete lack of understanding mental health issues.

          • Cindy Wood

            yeah, where exactly do all those pens and stuff advertising drugs come from?

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Is your doctor a psychiatrist? If he’s not then why would he/she prescribe such meds and if he is, then what kind of shrink is he? Me thinks you know not of what you speak. Big companies period do have a big hand in what goes on in this country however, to say that people are only taking these pills because they’re are lazy and feeling sorry for themselves is like saying AIDS is fake, the Holocaust never happened, and alcoholism is not a disease. You need to find a new doctor STAT ’cause that one is just bad news all the way around. And if you think prescription meds are as loosely regulated as that then you’ve got you head in the sand. There is no way that a big pharmaceutical company is going to fudge it’s findings and put out a drug that could potentially harm or kill people. That would just be business suicide. No pun intended.

          • Daniel

            Excellent comments bro, the gross generalizations and conspiracy theorists are so bloody annoying.

          • Gregory Miller

            Thanks. I cringe a little bit when I stand up to the nutballs because sometimes more nutballs swarm.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            And you know this because…? Why now?

          • phaedra

            Science is a Liar Sometimes!!! Remember the world was once flat and had the sun revolving around it! The best thing to realize is that we constantly need to improve rather than disprove questioning information.

          • Gregory Miller

            Well, no, science is never a liar. The scientific method is to base a theory on things that are known at the time and try to replicate and test that theory in as many ways as possible. New information changes those theories but science rarely considers subjects settled. The thing is, when a theory is proven differently, it is through the scientific process and is through better testing of the theory, not by completely non-scientific assertions.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Thank you. I’m glad someone spoke up. The doctors are not handing out meds like candy for any old reason. I don’t think we have more mental illness I just think it’s being recognized more for what it is. In the old days people just made excuses for relatives or neighbors that were a little bit ‘weird’. A lot of people with mental illness would self medicate with drugs or alcohol so people would think well, there’s Micky, the town drunk, when he was actually bi-polar, or the crazy old lady down the street who would walk out of her house naked on occasion. We also had places to put these people, institutions, which were not the best solution, but sometimes that needed to be done so people wouldn’t hurt themselves or each other. We have gotten rid of most of those places so a lot of the mentally ill end up as homeless. The meds are a damn lifesaver for many people, me included.

          • Some folks

            This is so wrong. Some doctors are definitely in it for the wrong reasons, money being the top reason, but to throw all doctors in this non-caring role is grossly misguided. I work with pediatricians daily who face scrutiny and angry parents because they won’t prescribe antibiotics for a runny nose or ADHD medication for 3 year olds just because mom is tired of chasing them around the house. By the way, the underlying problem with a lot of these children on Ritalin and other related drugs is that they have no discipline. Some parents (not all, not even close) just want an “easy fix” so they will do whatever it takes to get their child put on these drugs when what the drug treats is not the problem at all. Stop blaming the people trying to help for all the disorders people are inherently born with. You’re probably one of the “anti-vaccinators” bringing measles back to the US too.

          • waltinseattle

            amen that last line. as for the “some parents” I blame hope and faith not bad intentions for the acceptance of little zombies. And you know, some states take kids away if parents dont go along

          • chris

            I had to laugh and agree with you here. I cant stand when parents bring in kids for behavior problems, wanting medications to fix a problem that good old fashioned discipline would fix. Its free. But nope, give me a pill. And why are all these kids on antidepressants anyways? For starters, are they trying therapy before resorting to “quick fixes”? And are we raising our children to see our own depressed mentalities or giving our kids all they want so they feel depressed at the first hint of failure? We dont teach our children anymore to be well balanced with coping skills. We just teach them that they are the best and every kid is a winner and you deserve allowance for chores you are supposed to do, and if you run into misfortune. ….its never their fault and they are a victim. Blame. That is a sure recipe for a child to need ssri pills later in life when life actually happens. And we call that good parenting because we shielded them and gave them what they want. Ugh. Dont get me started. Too late….

          • Cindy Wood

            i was one of those over-medicated kids. a cold was a sinus INFECTION, and i was given antibiotics for every one of them. then when i was about 5, my pill-head mother took me for regular radium treatments up my nose. that was the latest thing to treat frequent colds, being strapped down and having radium rods stuck up you nose. i feel like i cheated death cuz i’ll be 65 this month.

          • Rebecca Smith

            What I see in my professional work and from personal life experience and being the grandparent, parent AND daughter of people with serious mental health issues is the lack of willingness to address the whole person. We are complicated creatures. If we don’t look at the emotional, physical, spiritual and mental components as a unit…to check what is out of balance…we miss the point. Brain chemistry is a great start (ie, medication), but what about human touch and spending quality time with these kids? What about diet, food additives, dyes in foods, too much processed food? Some kids are incredibly sensitive to food. What about a connection to nature, or Creator? What about exercise? What does this ALL look like in these children’s lives? We all want quick fixes today. But it simply doesn’t work that way.

          • Jennifer

            Exactly my thoughts. I think parents nowadays see their kid depressed and instantly take them to see a psychiatrist instead of talking to them or trying to fix the problem, trying to figure out what’s causing it.

          • waltinseattle

            a doc who finds you have a bad ticker does not just prescibe and run. He makes sure you respond safely and is willing to change. Psy god docs seem a bit different. you might appreciate reading this about a middle path:

            i would enjoy feedback if you do read it.

          • Me

            All are valid points and this is a discussion that could go on forever because everyone has their own opinions!!! However, I don’t see anyone talking about the lies.. So often people seek help for something and drs may prescribe meds to try to help, but what they don’t know is if they really know everything they should. There are so many that will deliberately leave things out or lie about their true history and drugs they may already be on.. It’s not the doctors we should fault but hold everyone accountable for their own actions.. Good or bad they are ours and ours alone!!!

          • Gene (paralegal student)

            kickbacks are an everyday part of the pharmaceutical business. This is

            people almost always vote & give their opinions based on what protects or
            furthers their financial position. In this matter, any doctor giving his
            opinion is biased, therefore in most cases, discredited and would NOT be
            allowed on a jury.

            this kind of thing practically never happened before these drugs were part of
            the field or marketplace even though guns have always been around (especially
            in these mostly rural areas where most of these violent episodes have occurred.
            Question did we ever hear of these kinds of occurrences in say 1965? 1975?
            Let’s correlate together when these occurrences started and when these meds
            became readily available shall we?

            most teens in high school feel a lot of pressure, socially and especially
            economically. (thanks in no small part to the way our current system of
            government is an unsustainable, systemic failure). Teens, it could be argued,
            are more “depressed”, BUT teenagers aren’t credible as a source of anything.
            What do they know as “a bar” of (supposed) happiness? THEY ARE TEENAGERS! How
            the hell would a teenager know if he or she is depressed?

            the kickback policy that lives within the pharmaceutical business, IT can be
            EASILY argued that a doctor cannot be trusted to administer such tests for
            depression (especially in teenagers). YES, you might say I’m advocating for
            regulation (oh God, more regulations?)

            it would serve the public WELL, to temporarily ban all use of anti-depressants
            at least in people 21 years and younger OR in school which seems to be a favorite target for these certifiably
            “unstable, mentally diseased persons”. (Gee, do we think school may be the trigger-point of all the stress?, DUH!) The point
            was well illustrated by another reader, that these anti-depressants cause a
            person to feel emotionally numb, therefore callous to the killing etc.

            it is always a perfect storm and many factors that lead to these occurrences.
            BUT, FACT remains; these
            anti-depressants and being prescribed to teenagers (children) are the BIGGEST FACTOR IN THE STORM. Look at
            all the cases stated, LOOK AT THEM!! The
            doctor who said that they were not necessarily the form of causality is in
            DENIAL! Guns or access to them would
            be argued to be the second leading
            FACTOR. A third factor, which
            can be argued, from actual credible studies, is the callousness to killing that modern video games (played mostly by teenagers) MAY cause in teenagers (I
            stated this would be a third, in priority, factor to this “perfect storm”).

            I need to get on with my life here. I think most of these comments are by
            people who are not looking at ALL of the factors involved. Unfortunately with
            the two of the most powerful lobbies in this country (the pharmaceutical
            business lobby and the gun lobby) we’re pretty much $#@!ed to get anything done
            in this area even though it is obvious there is an ever increasing LETHAL problem
            (Santa Barbara most recently). Do we think congress will do anything? BOLLOCKS.

          • Martin J. Clemens

            Weird how your “facts” don’t hold up to a little research.


            In particular, take note of the section on school massacres, where the first one recorded (not to imply that it’s the first one that ever happened), was in 1927.

            Care to revise your facts?

          • Gene (paralegal Student)

            they’re good. Yes, you did “a little research”, but reference to an incomplete
            wikipedia page is not a counter argument. It certainly doesn’t counter any of
            my points with validity as to the FREQUENCY of these occurrences in the last 10
            years. You missed the point of the whole of what I wrote. That’s OK, it was a
            lot to take in. So I assume you support the use of these problematic psych meds
            in Teenagers otherwise you would have supported what I wrote.

          • Martin J. Clemens

            “Question did we ever hear of these kinds of occurrences in say 1965? 1975?”

            In only the school massacres category (one category out of 12), three separate incidents prior to 1970, accounting for 69 deaths.

            General massacres in the Americas, four incidents prior to 1960, accounting for more than 44 deaths.

            This doesn’t include the seven recorded incidents from Europe prior to 1960 (and going back as far as 1904), 16 from Africa and Asia prior to 1960, and eight from Oceanic areas prior to 1960 (going back to 1873 and older).

            And don’t even try to pretend that those records reflect all of the mass murder/massacre incidents throughout history.

            By ANY standard, your statement of fact “this kind of thing practically never happened before these drugs were part of the field or marketplace even though guns have always been around (especially in these mostly rural areas where most of these violent episodes have occurred.” is demonstrably false.

            As for missing your biased and uneducated point, I understood everything you said, I happen to disagree, and the FACTS are on my side.

            The real FACT is, these kinds of things have been going on throughout our entire history. It IS NOT a “modern” phenomenon. Hence, psychiatric medications are less likely to be a cause, but rather likely indicate a symptom of a much larger issue.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Your “facts” are like Swiss cheese – full of holes. Give me ONE legitimate study that shows that anti-depressants are the cause of these mass murders? I’ll bet there aren’t any that would lump all anti-depressants into one big study, either. That would be like saying all anti-depressants cause the same side effects for all patients. Change that to all pain meds have the same side effects for all patients. You know that isn’t true so why would the other be true? I think you’re just trying to yank our chains, so to speak, because it’s obvious you don’t know much of anything related to this discussion. I’ve been to 5 psychiatrists and numerous therapists and not one has ever given me a ‘test’ for depression. And if a doctor isn’t qualified to determine if a patient needs medication then, pray tell, who would that be? And just to really throw a monkey wrench into the big mess you bring up education. You’d better tread lightly on that one, too, because I was a teacher for 30 years. So go back to your video games and your tweets. If you want to play here you need to do some work first.

          • Gregory Miller

            You have not stated one fact, just your belief. You are too full of yourself to think that everything in your mind is a fact. THAT is a fact! LOL!

          • Avery

            Simply labelling something as a fact does not make it so.

          • Cindy Wood

            my grandmother put my mother on sleeping pills in the 1930,s because she was high-strung and the last of 5 children- a mistake. she’s been a pill head ever since, but her milltown hasn’t made her psychotic

          • Avery

            I’m not really sure what that has to do with my response to Gene?

          • Cindy Wood

            why am i not surprised that gregory thinks you are an idiot. i agree with all of that, so i just joined the idiot club.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Hello, Fact #1 – Prove it! Obviously you’ve never been clinically or chronically depressed. I first noticed my depression when I was about 7. I didn’t know what it was called but I was depressed. As a teenager I knew I was depressed. Looking back on those years as a 50ish woman I was most definitely suffering from severe depression. More than one psychiatrist has diagnosed me as a chronic depressive. Five doctors can’t all be wrong. My fact: Anti-depressants have helped me live an (almost) normal life. Another one of my “facts” is that I’ve worked with teenagers my entire adult career and I can tell you that they are indeed credible and to be believed. They suffer from all sorts of things and not all of it is imagined or overly dramatized. What I find laughable about your comments is that you say let’s ban anti-depressants for teenagers even though thousands of people (teenagers, too) have benefited greatly from their use. Yet you barely mention the GUNS that most of these youngsters used to kill with and name one time that a gun has actually helped a person other than killing for food or protection? Your logic has no logic and no real facts to support your assertions.

          • Cindy Wood

            this conversation is supposed to be about does a 3 yr old taking amphetamines for hyper-active brain-damage, tell the dr that prescribed them, that she is over it?

          • Teddi

            Can’t prove you wrong Troy you are absolutely right!!! I’ve been doing research on line because a dr wants to put my child on Prozac…. She is 14!!!!!!! Children do not respond the same way an adult might on these drugs their bodies are still growing and developing and being on these drugs cause the brain to stop making certain chemicals and make too much of others it’s not natural and their poor bodies are not stable yet hormonal ly or in any way really. The studies I’ve been reading say that the efficacy of these drugs is totally questionable….children/adolescents on these drugs act impulsively and most or all of the studies showed that kids on these drugs had increased suicidal tendencies or even homicidal!! It’s unbelievable to me that they’re even still allowed to give these meds to anyone esp our children!!!

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Do you know why the doctor wants to put your daughter on these meds? Have you read the medical literature related to Prozac? It’s been around for over 30 years so there are lots and lots of studies. The reason I ask this is because at 14, way back in 1969, I was severely depressed and suicidal and never told anyone because what could anyone do anyway? My parents would have just told me to go to church and pray more. And there was no Prozac then. I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, I’m just saying that, from personal experience only, you should try to help your daughter in any way that you can. It might not be medication but maybe therapy could help. But even with that you need to be thorough and thoughtful. My sister went to a therapist as a teenager and it didn’t help her at all because he was not a good therapist. Good luck with getting your daughter the right kind of help that she needs. She will thank you later.

          • chris

            I think if you really want to be looked at as credible, you may want to not be claiming outlandish theories with punctuation errors and misspelling “pharmasudical”. Not a good look when you trying to sound intelligent and influence an audience to believe anything that has no facts to substantiate your theory. You may very well be right that medications may do more harm than good, because i do believe in some conspiracies, but the package you present that theory in needs to be better prepared. And no, providers dont get kick backs. They may get bribed with dinners and pens and vouchers for medical equipment, which I have seen with my own eyes and coordinated, but if the medication had no benefits or good studies to back it up, the doctors kept it moving. They still wrote the medication they felt was necessary with the pen that they were given by another drug company.

          • Didn’t feel like logging in

            If you believe a pen or a dinner is a viable way to bribe a doctor who already makes a large amount of money per year, you’re nuts. Even the vouchers for medical equipment isn’t really a good bribe, seeing as the types of doctors who need said medical equipment don’t prescribe medications. Those are family practitioners or Psychiatrists. In this case, it would be psychiatrists, who have no need for medical equipment and make enough money that pens or a dinner is kind of laughable. The only psychiatrists that would want that kind of thing are the ones that don’t have a good reputation anyways, and so they aren’t exactly the best example. No self-respecting psychiatrist would prescribe a medication just because they received a dinner or a pen from a pharmaceutical company.

          • Avery

            You must not have read to the end of Chris’s comment:

            “…but if the medication had no benefits or good studies to back it up, the doctors kept it moving. They still wrote the medication they felt was necessary with the pen that they were given by another drug company.”

          • NukeWaste

            You have no idea what doctors do. There are two types. One uses only medicine. They are MDs. The other school is more homeopathic. They are DOs. They rarely work together. If they did, these little libtards wouldn’t freak out like they do. The meds need to be accompanied with a long controlled hospital stay. But that doesn’t happen. So the treatment doesn’t work well.

          • Gregory Miller

            I agree with you entirely. The Mental Health system does not allow for a period to see how the medications are working. But no reason to throw names around like that. I am liberal and I agree with you,but I don’t want to.

          • NukeWaste

            I wasn’t insulting any doctors. These are the two distinct schools of thought on medicine. They each have a distinct diploma. An MD or a DO.

          • Avery

            I agree with almost all of your comments on here, but this is painting with very large strokes:

            “The Mental Health system does not allow for a period to see how the medications are working.”

            Also, before agreeing with NukeWaste “entirely”, you may want to recognize that the majority of claims made in that post are incorrect. I enumerated the four I noticed, above.

          • Gregory Miller

            I was surprised that I had written that I agreed with him and it has me scratching my head. Reading what he wrote, I don’t agree with him at all. I am thinking I was intending to respond to someone else and accidentally selected his comment. I am doing this with an iPad and you have to be ever so careful to select the right comment.
            I understand you think I am painting with a broad brush, but I am basing it on my experiences professionally. I work with some very severe mental illnesses. Inpatient treatment to get someone’s meds adjusted when they are in crisis is difficult to get and when you do, it is difficult to nearly impossible to have adequate time. This is my experience whether the funding is private insurance or government. Having said that, when, after several years of very traumatic work, I began having frequent panic attacks, which then presented additional agoraphobia because of the frequency of the panic attacks, I received extraordinary service from my prescriber. But I didn’t need hospitalization either. So it is from the lens of my professional experience that I speak. And I would say that the majority of the mental health professionals I work with are of the opinion that inpatient services, available beds, and e commitment process are the most problematic for getting appropriate help for people in crisis.

          • Avery

            1) There are a lot more than two types of doctors.
            2) MDs do not ONLY use medicine.
            3) DOs are not “more homeopathic”. They are Osteopaths and are more HOLISTIC. Homeopathy is quackery.
            4) MDs and DOs often work together.

          • Leslie

            Troy, I couldn’t agree with you more! The more chemical crap doctors prescribe the more problems you get. It seems that when weighing the side effects against the benefits the medications do more harm than good. Yet our government seems to turn a blind eye & you can’t help but wonder how much money these lobbyists are paying them to look the other way & it’s somehow legal for them to do so. It just blows my mind!

          • Gregory Miller

            That is a little wackadoodle of you. Psychiatric medications help enormous numbers of people where previously people just suffered the debilitating effects of mental illness. Ever wonder why we don’t need sanitariums anymore?

          • Martin J. Clemens

            Do you understand that everything that exists on this planet is a chemical?

          • Avery

            Not math. j/k :P

          • Avery

            “The more chemical crap doctors prescribe the more problems you get.”

            I imagine that your form of thinking is easier than critical thinking.

          • brewil

            it’s “to” not “too”

          • Gregory Miller

            Nobody can prove you wrong because you have concocted a conspiracy of kickbacks and other nefarious reasons that doctors treat people that you cannot prove and because no one can know the motivation of all the doctors, no one can prove wrong. Working in the field, though, I can tell you that you accusation of kickbacks is pure BS and I can tell you that the very vast, vast majority of people in the medical profession are just desperate to help the patient and not to make a mistake. The biggest fear in the medical profession is malpractice.

          • Dawn Stickell Wilson

            Amen..,.. I could not have said it better myself. When I go to the Dr and he wants to give me this pill or that pill. I tell him not to waist his prescription paper. I will NOT take any thing more than ibuprofen or Tylenol. And if I have a problem I work it out for my self. I Dont need to be all zoned out. When the meds wear off where are these kids finding there selves right where they started. You can not hide behind drugs life still happens. And as a child at young adult is when we develop our ability to cope with life. I love your comment.

          • robert

            then why do you go to the doctor anyways…oh of course, you are a damn genius. Your Ibuprofen or Tylenol can kill you too. Proper medications do not “zone” people out. You obviously have no experience with mental illness or treatments.

          • Avery

            Are you a Christian Scientist (the denomination, not the occupation)?

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            You should thank God that you are able to help yourself. I hope you never have depression, or anxiety. I’m sure you’re not bi-polar, or schizophrenic, or psychotic, or a socio-path (medication doesn’t really help that anyway.) I also hope none of your children or grandchildren ever suffer from one of these things. Or a seizure, or a tumor, or a heart problem. I really hope that anything that ails you or your family is easily cured by over the counter meds, a hot bath, some chicken soup, and well,.. you get the idea. You really don’t know what other people suffer. Pray for those of us who don’t have it as good as you. Because if there was anything in my life that I could change it would be not to have a mental illness.

          • waltinseattle

            heather I sympathize with your experience and the anecdotal story is sad. BUT do not invalidate Rainabba for having a different experience. And do not think that your flat affect is that of everyone on the drugs you were on. Lets start to think that maybe the dr God who abused his prescription rights and your life is as much too blame as the drugs he did it with. He is the mind, they were his helpless tools!

          • Rick Williams

            To all the prior comments stated above, I can sum it all up to say, it isn’t the medicines fault that is just an excuse to pass the blame onto psych patients. The whole problem is not the 2nd amendment it is all about the corporate gun manufacturer’s profits. In the year of 2013 the gun manufacturer’s profits were more than General Motors. This is the whole problem: CORPORATE GREED always trumps human life.

          • Richelle Garland

            I’m guessing most of the really bad side effects were from opiates, and not so much the SSRI’s. I’m tapering off oxycodone right now, and it sucks! That stuff is terrible for you. Not to say the combination would probably not be a lot of fun. I hope you’re feeling better now!

          • Gregory Miller

            Yes, good point. ANd Oxycodone should NEVER be used for mental health issues anyway.

          • Noah_92707

            lack of emotion or empathy will hurt the way you rationalize things and make decisions. So you do have a good point there but its not like you actually knew what you were saying. So, no, “psychiatrist don’t figure not feeling anything is better than feeling something negative.”. Why would you assume you know more that a psychologist? They understand well the effects of making human behavior when too influenced by emotion or when not enough emotion/empathy is felt. Another factor is the ability to rationalize/reason. If kid is emotional and isn’t thinking clearly, obviously he’s going to slip.

          • Jennifer

            I have been on all but 2 of the above named meds plus several others. Mostly between the ages of 15-25. I also legally and responsibly own guns. I have never once considered suicide or murder ever. I am not the type to let anyone push me around or bully me, but I have never considered anything violent other than hitting back when I was attacked. I think it has more to do with the underlying causes. How do you know it was the drugs that made you feel that way? It could been hormonal changes in your body from growth among several other things. Not all meds work for everyone but they do help many. A lot of people commit murders with out meds, I am guessing most.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            That sounds about right to me. It’s too hard to be able to pinpoint the exact cause of these killings. Except to maybe say that the people have a mental defect in the emotional sector and that they had access to guns.

          • Gregory Miller

            But the problem is that YOU had a bad reaction to a medication, or some medications. The fact that people get addicted to pain medication doesn’t mean that it doesn’t help the majority. Vilifying a medication or profession only makes people who are more likely to be suspicious and less likely to seek help even MORE suspicious and less likely to seek help. Psychiatric medication help an enormous amount of people. But some common sense on the part of the consumer is in order, too. Such as actually seeing a psychiatrist for these meds rather than their PCP and following the other parts of the treatment plan that most people ignore, such as regulating and maintaining a regular sleep/wake schedule, regulating your diet, regular exercise, support groups and a whole host of other natural supports that help in recovery or management of mental illnesses. Now, it is true that some psychiatrists do NOT do this, but the very vast majority do and the very vast majority of people benefit from medications. I had heard so many bad things about medications that even I was reticent about taking them. And the bias is extremely strong against people who take medications. I had sudden onsite acute panic attacks that occurred after a few difficult years of work. They were happening during most waking hours and it got so bad that I could barely go outside and efforts to get to work were gargantuan. Thank god I went to see a specialist PA in panic attacks and a psychologist. The medications did NOTHING to me, except to interrupt the physical components that created the panic attacks int eh first place. In other words, I was able to just feel normal again and work on the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and recover. Today I take no medications and I have recovered. But without them, this situation would have spiraled quickly out of control.

          • medicatedmom

            That may have been the result for you, but for a large number of people it is quite the opposite. For many people with depression, they DON’T care about anything and the medications help them feel enough to seek long term solutions. Medication is not the solution for everyone and should be used with caution, but to broadly vilify it for everyone because some people react badly would cause more problems than it solves.

          • Emily

            I was on Zoloft for 3 years due to anxiety. I still had emotions and never had any bad side effects besides feeling a little tired throughout the day. I was only take 50mg’s once a day. It really helped with my anxiety at the time and I am grateful for it. I never wanted to harm myself or anyone else or break the law. For some people these medications really help them. They’re not all bad.

          • sara

            As a bipolar patient, I’ve benefited tremendously from low dose lithium. It gave me my life back.

          • Avery

            “The meds also make most people cease to care about anything.”

            No. Not “most”. You can’t generalize your personal experiences to “most” people.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            HEATHER, you obviously were not on the right meds to begin with. Sometimes it takes awhile for the full effect to be known. Also, people can be misdiagnosed. My sister was diagnosed as depressed years ago and put on anti-depressants when she is actually bi-polar. Huge difference. The key here is for the doctor to monitor the patient carefully. The biggest problem that I see in this country right now related to mental health issues is that we don’t have enough providers and facilities to take care of the seriously mentally ill who need round the clock supervision until their meds take effect. Unfortunately, not all doctors are good doctors and the use of these types of meds is not an exact science due to the fact that many factors can contribute to the success or failure of the meds. So sorry you had to go through that. I know what it is like because I too have had issues. I tried to convince my doctor to change my prescription a few years ago because I was getting more depressed and had no desire to do anything. She refused. I finally got a new doctor who did change my meds and things are looking much brighter.

          • Dot

            They do not make “most people” do any of that.

          • Charles notsocrazy

            So many bullshit disorders. If you’re not happy or depressed…. keep it to yourself. Let those of us who enjoy life keep doing so. Stop giving laziness, poor parenting, obesity and plain ole stupid long medical names and stop throwing medicine at these people. The rest of us enjoy life. Go live with the Amish or something. Stay away from the normal functioning sector of society.

          • Penny

            If every person who struggled with emotional disorders left “normal” society, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of people left. Like Rainabba said, a support system is crucial for recovery. Keeping it to yourself is usually the worst thing you can do. That’s usually the mistake people make before they crack and shoot up a school or kill themselves.

          • waltinseattle

            why dont you go back to your job as a screw in whatever underFBI investigation jail your dead-ended in

          • kell

            you are dumb.

          • me

            Fuck you idiot… you clearly do not understand.

          • Gregory Miller

            You are a horrible person and you appear to be anything but normal. You have little education or understanding of mental illness and the challenges that people face who deal with mental health issues. You should really be ashamed of yourself.

          • robert

            They have meds to treat being an jerk (asshole).

          • Avery

            I wish.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            I wish.

          • Avery

            I take it you slept through all of your science classes?

          • Cindy Wood

            change your name to charles socrazy

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Why are you even here? Go enjoy your happy life somewhere else then.

          • waltinseattle

            and after years lost in disease, one starts to come back and wants to reclaim life, but looks at the clock, which never stopped nor slowed for the detour. That might not be Organic SMI MAJOR DEPRESSION, but it sure does give one a bad case of the existential blues. I experienced something of this after the fatal diagnosis of Hep C 12 years past. the diagnosis was correct, the forcast not. Clear now a decade, residual med effects that will never go away, a different life style I did not plan to have until at least the century mark…and those blues…..time that does not come back.

          • Mr.E

            99.999% is your idea of an estimate? and larger would be 100%, negating what your saying. these pills dont help anywhere near 100%, otherwise we wouldnt have such crimes hapening, because the pills would be working 100% by your “estimate”

          • Gregory Miller

            You are being an ass. I think she is simply trying to illustrate that she believes the vast majority are helped, which is a fact. Her usage of that percentage may have been technically incorrect and hyperbole but I don’t think she meant it literally.

          • Avery

            If we are going to be pedantic, 99.9991% would be larger than 99.999%, so would 99.999000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

            Your claim of negation is incorrect.

          • Dan Cooper

            Many-.-many of these kids, especially, do not need these drugs. These are the ones that ought to be questioned Ann’s investigated, but hidden and protected.

          • guest

            I was IV’ed Haldol for nausea from acute radiation sickness a couple of years back.. and although I hadn’t used marijuana in years (I grew to hate the stuff), I wished for it as the Haldol did NOTHING for the nausea. Instead I experienced akathisia for a couple of days. It was a unique and ridiculously irritating sensation, but inner restlessness isn’t the same as emotional impulsiveness. You just want to physically flail about, not actually do anything; your thoughts are still completely rational.

          • Linda Ross Shin

            Outstanding, well-reasoned, compassionate response. Thank you for sharing your insight.

          • Manders

            Thank you for this, rainabba :)

          • Kcangieg

            Well said!

          • waltinseattle

            teenage diagnosis is doubly difficult. it is in misdiagnosis that these adverse reactions are apt to occur. by looking from a “behavioral medicine” point, we miss underlying differences with too similar manifestations. We treat symptoms, not causes. With great risk also see: !

          • Dan Cooper

            They (some) didn’t have trouble planning murder! What a burden to place on the already burdened.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Well, not only did the Santa Barbara shooter plan months in advance what he wanted to do he was able to hide his true thoughts and actions from the police when they came to investigate. The kid sounds like a socio-path to me. But we’ll never really know what he was thinking because now he’s dead. I still maintain that is his parents could have placed him into a mental health facility they should have. God knows they had the money to put him somewhere.

          • Kim Williams Blankenship

            if you are having side effects such as this…you may not be able to tell anybody

          • Linda Ross Shin

            I don’t think you can draw these conclusions from the evidence presented. While drugs MAY have played a role in SOME cases, it does not follow that psychotropic drugs caused all of these people to do these things. There is not enough information presented to draw any conclusions except that people who commit suicide and/or mass murders are psychologically imbalaced.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Exactly. I think the author is trying to point the blame elsewhere because he doesn’t want there to be stricter gun controls. If you can put the blame on something else people will forget the real issue.

          • Kathie Sykes

            One of the basic concepts that was stressed in an Abnormal Psychology class that I took was that you must be extremely careful about prescribing antidepressants, because sometimes those drugs will give folks just enough motivation to act on their impulses. The recommended treatment is medication WITH therapy. It was stressed that it was dangerous to medicate without therapy.

          • Ebm

            It could also be that some of these individuals were misdiagnosed or there was an indie tidied comorbid problem in addition to the depression. May be they were on the wrong kind of medication or not receiving the treatment they needed due to an unidentified problem.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Yes. That is one reason why the author’s assumptions are flawed. There are too many variables to say for sure what the exact cause is.

        • Gail Finke

          Suicidal thoughts are NOT the same thing as homicidal thoughts. Homicidal thoughs are not a risk of these medications.

        • allison kowalcyk

          We never know what causes one to go on a rampage or commit suicide. Sure.. these mentally unstable killers were probably given anti drugs of some sort but if doses are missed or missused wih alcohol the side effects topped with personality disorders probably could have caused more of a side effect like a mental breakdown than the prescription itself. If the parents were having a close relationship and knowing these kids inside and out ,my personal opinion would be that perhaps having someone to lean to rather than bottle up anger and have an episode like the ones listed above could possibly help the mentally ill. Even for a case so severe.. if your close with your children.. and talk to them everyday and provide medication monitoring .. perhaps we would have less of these ..just perhaps

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Good Points.

        • BoiseBoy

          All those other countries (in Europe, Japan, Australia) which have virtually no gun deaths actually have mentally ill people.

          They also have disgruntled employees, disaffected teenagers, jealous spouses, bullied kids, jilted partners, curious children…

          The only difference is that they do not have insanely easy access to guns.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            There you go. The perfect argument for gun restriction. That’s what I say as well but you supported yours with better logic than I did.

      • IworkForMediumToBigPharma

        Meds ARE causality in some cases, the ratio is debatable but to say meds are not a causality in ANY case is just wrong, misdiagnoses of meds counts as meds, the quack doctor is just as much to blame as the med itself in that case. The doctor didnt misdiagnose the patient with puppies or kitty cats did they? No it was psych drugs!!

        • Vickie Gentry

          You don’t diagnose someone (or misdiagnose) someone with “psych drugs” you treat a diagnosis with medication that is designed to alleviate the symptoms of the diagnosis. As to the first part of your first sentence of “causality”… I can not even begin to try to tease out your meaning. You keep using these words, I do not think these words mean what you think they mean.

          • Katie Smith


          • waltinseattle

            your just a little slow on the uptake. you have a few errors that I might point out, if you permit? we do treat with meds “designed” to ALLEVIATE SYMPTOMS. thats like giving eye whitener drops to someone with hepatitis and jaundiced yees. We got rid of the yello0w, job done? NOT EVEN! and all this sin because mental is not mater, mind is not brain and BEHAVIORAL MEDICINE/PHILOSOPHY still trumps the lab and science. and what IS a diagnosis? more than “well you respond to this drug favorably!” there is a prior portion of a due dilligence diagnosis…ruling out other causes (liver, kidney, some infections like lymes (try 5 years on antidepressants because the undiscovered lymes saps all your energy) arre you with me still? Someday soon we will treat the extreme of disease with meds DESIGNED TO AFFECT THE CAUSES as well as emergency symptomatic relief, and then we will continue with the treatment of the whole patient, the biology and the living issues both

          • Darcie Ley

            probably in the future, treat a person who was horribly abused and assauted and beaten AS A LITTLE, LITTLE GIRL, but like it was back then, you couldn’t tell anyone. And so those horrid, filthy, disgusting memories stay with you for the rest of your life. How exactly would you treat that “cause” of the extreme of this disease? And in certain cases, oh say… ones like these, wouldn’t you say it would be rather merciful for her doctor to prescibe a medication to alleviate her signs and symptoms?
            How exactly would you tell a grown woman that she’s ok, even though she was unable to tell as a child and now no one believes her. How about that one?

            Someone — please stop me.

          • waltinseattle

            i know women in that situation still ptsd. on top inherited(?) bipolar.
            not my call but id try mdma for 2 or 3 sessions to see if you can defuse the memory. mdma is now beconing available to therapists again. the drug war quashed it. the work of claudio naranjo was lost these 50 some years. now the exact work must be almost reinvented. DO NOT TRY STREET DRUG. DONT PROCEED WITHOUT EXPERT THERAPIST. unyil your over it you are not o.k. as you deserve to be. as long as you need Constsnt drugs you are not o.k. as you deserve. .DONOT GO OFF PSYCHDRUGS WITHOUT DOC WORKING WITH YOU…never never ever!
            stay safe look out thrrr google for “MDMA for trauma” on imternet..look for practicioner or even ask about study.participation.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Therapy. With a good therapist. And lots of it. There will always be pain. It will never go away but with therapy you can learn to ‘deal” with it. I know that sounds trite and I don’t mean it to be. When I say deal with it I mean work through it, examine it for what it was but don’t let it be the thing that defines you for the rest of your life. You will always carry that with you but with help you can put it into perspective and keep it where it belongs so that you can live your life as it is now. Healing can happen. But make sure you get a therapist you feel totally comfortable with. Perhaps eventually you could join a group but I would do one on one for awhile first. You can take back your life. Don’t let your abuser rule the rest of your life too. God bless you. I hope you get the help you need. I will pray for your healing.

          • Avery

            Please get an editor so that we can understand you.

            “and all this sin because mental is not mater, mind is not brain and BEHAVIORAL MEDICINE/PHILOSOPHY still trumps the lab and science.”

            You need to worry less about sin, and more about syntax, because that makes absolutely no sense.

        • JoeNCA

          [citation needed]

        • Jeffrey Benson

          That word, I do not think it means what you think it means. “Meds ARE causality in some cases” indicates that you don’t know what causality means. Meds are the cause in some cases, but not in other cases, thus there is the potential that a causal relationship exists, but more study is needed to verify and ascertain the strength of that relationship.

      • ghendric

        …yet the gun control crowd blames the gun and not the person.. I’ve also noticed that Al Sharpton only appears when it isn’t a Caucasian kid getting killed with a gun too.

      • Wisedoc

        Antisocial Personality Disorder. Sociopaths, and psychopaths. This is genetic??? Do you really think this is genetic? Do you have your doctorate from a box of cracker jacks? These are products of socialization. Products of their past lifestyles events and choices… None of these individuals where born this way, none of these individual’s parents or grandparents were diagnosed with having Antisocial Personality Disorder or are Sociopaths or psychopaths… The parents/grandparents/great grandparents did not go out and kill mass amounts of people… You can not claim genetics… Psychological disorders are not traced back in ones blood line for the last 5-10-20-+30 generations… Need to get your facts straight… Pharmaceutical drugs are not the answers… You cant exactly say they are the cause of the killings… They do not fix a problem… They attempt to mask or cover up a symptoms… But every Psychotropic drug has a major side effect of suicidal thoughts and actions… I do wonder why??? Well do know why……….. Will the public every know why???

        • medstudent

          You’re largely uneducated on the matters of personality disorders. that’s all I’m going to say

          • waltinseattle

            youyre a really easy going sort on the likes of that!

        • waltinseattle

          Take it back to scientology and Tommy ‘SZASZ!!!fool, youre busted!

        • Noah_92707

          Yes, moron. Do you know some kids are born unable to feel empathy? Do you know how your mind and emotions work together to act on you intuitions and then make a choice? Did you receive your degree from a forum?

        • Tonberry_King

          They’ve actually mapped some of the genes which code for higher release of things like serotonin, and found that people with these genes who are also exposed to a traumatic childhood are far more likely to end up with disorders like this than those without. I’d bother to look it up and provide the precise information if I thought you were actually interested in a discussion and not just here to rant.

        • Avery

          You have shown an enormous level of ignorance here.

        • Susan Forest-Rode

          Why would some mental illness be genetic and others not? It’s been a long time since I took a Psych course but I believe psychopaths and sociopaths are born that way. I suppose a trauma could ‘turn’ someone into a sadistic killer with no empathy but I would think that most of the cases it is something innate in their personality. Not all sociopaths murder people. Some are sadistic in other ways. Some become leaders of countries, some become CEOs, some are mechanics, etc. Just because someone has those tendencies doesn’t mean they act on them.

      • Lucy Blankenship

        I am an easy going stress free individual. A few years ago I wanted to quit smoking so I went to the doc and got prescribed Chantix. I took it for a couple days and on the second or third day I was driving my car into work and someone mildly cut me off. I wanted to kill that individual, not figuratively, I wanted to see his blood. I had thoughts of catching up to him running him off the road then causing further harm to him once I had him stopped. After a couple of seconds I was thinking to myself wow I am really really angry at this person and he really only slightly cut me off not an unusual thing to happen on the road. He really didn’t put me in danger so why was I so angry, not even angry I was full of rage at this individual. I thought to myself man that was really uncharacteristic of me. The day went on and I got irrationally upset at other random things. Anyways after I returned home from work I decided to look up the side effects of Chantix and guess what I found? Some people have had changes in behavior, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions while using CHANTIX. Luckily I was nearly 40 years old and I was emotionally mature enough to recognize these thoughts as being not rational but I shutter to think what could have happened if I tried Chantix when I was 20 and less mature and less responsible. Things could have went a totally different way. Like I said I am a generally happy person, I have never been on any psychoactive drugs nor charged with any crime violent or otherwise. I am certain one drug can cause severe hostile mood altering effects as I experienced it myself. I seriously doubt that is the only one!

        • waltinseattle

          being naturally eaasygoing, you had not the strong brain controlls that one less calm has to create by practice. When the urge came, there was no inhibitory circuit to protect you from the overload. typically they might just add 2 more drugs to cover that, there are better ways, an Traditional Chinese Medicine accupucturist would know all about that

      • NukeWaste

        You don’t understand. You aren’t there. You have never been there. There is no legitimate research ever done in the Pharmaceutical industry. Treating symptoms is all that is done. That and cutting. These people are allergic to something in their environment. My brother had that problem until he solved it permanently with heroin

      • ghostboy

        Guns and Bombs? Really?
        In thier mental state im not sure bomb making is the first idea that they’d come up with firstly they’d draw way too much suspicion and secondly they would probably blow them selves up before they carried out thier task of blowing up thier victims

        However in the good ol US of A hand guns shotguns assault weapons rapid fire all kinds are available without much trouble, hey son, what you want that gun for? Target Practice, oh yeah, all right then, have fun, and gave a nice day (thank you NRA) cha ching.
        Guns are the goto weapon of choice for a mass killing, bombs way to dirty.
        Bet you carry!

      • Giovanni Campanella

        It’s not just genetic, it’s genetic predisposition which manifests as sociopathy BECAUSE OF THE ENVIRONMENT.

      • Cari

        I respectfully cannot agree with you. I took ritilan and Effexor when I was younger and attempted suicide several times once off the medications I have gotten much better and am a fully functioning member of society so please tell me how these don’t make them all retaliated as your original argument is made invalid by the side effect warnings on each one of these meds labels

        • Cari


      • Bozobarnum

        Personality disorders, including Antisocial Personality, are not genetic. They are “learned.” They are not the same as chemical imbalances, like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and depression.
        Anyway, without doing further studies, it cannot be said 100% whether it was the drugs, the underlying condition or both that caused these behaviors.
        I’m not defending the drug companies. I’ve worked in psychiatry for 15 years. Lock up dangerous people.

        • Gregory Miller

          You must have been the custodian in the psych office because nothing that you have said is true. The fact is that their aid a tendency for mental illnesses, or which personality disorders belong, to run in families. While this is not conclusive, it suggests that a genetic marker exists which predisposes one to mental illness. The fact that it also tends to skip generations or occur in family members who are not parents suggests that it is not environmentally passed in families but genetically.

        • Gregory Miller

          And “lock up dangerous people” is an idiotic statement on several levels. The vast majority of the time you cannot know or predict who is going to be dangerous. And just thinking someone has the tendency to be dangerous does not strip people of their civil rights.

      • CarolEme

        Antisocial Personality Disorder and sociopaths are made…they are not ‘genetic’. ANY person can have a propensity for ANY mental illness – it takes TRIGGERS to develop them. Also, there is a great deal of discussion amongst researchers and the psychiatric community that personality disorders (antisocial personality disorder, etc) are a result of TRAUMA – and therefore cannot be lumped into the ‘it’s genetic’ pile.

      • JD

        I agree it is not just the medication. At times it may be mispirscribed. By at the same time if a mom or family member sees a real problem. If Dr. doesn’t listen go elsewhere. A parent knows. I have been on Prozac for a few years. Personally it takes a lot when the depression is in the family. FAITH in GOD is great, medication and knowing to pay attention to any changes asap. Prayers for all.

      • ONE pissed off paramedic

        Bullshit! I took Paxil and it change me! I was a Firefighter Paramedic! Not only did I gain 120 lbs. But, I turned into a man that hated people, and myself! Oprah’s show informed me about weight gain. I quit cold turkey! Against Dr.s orders. He said it could cause suicidal tendencies. Not only did I drop the weight gain, my feeling toward people returned! These SSRI’s are THE cause for the influx of killings in America! Dr.s should be liable for these killings and suicides!!!!!!!!!!!! SSRI’s are the worse medication to EVER hit the market! IF, IF the patients need these meds, THEY HAVE TO BE INSTITUTIONALIZED AND OBSERVED FOR INSANE BEHAVIOR!!!!! How many more people have to loose their lives and freedom? AGAIN, DOCTORS have to take responsibility for the drugs THEY chose to prescribe. I bet you MY freedom they will stop the mass distribution of these NEW SSRI’s!

    • Patricia Robinett

      is a very important story and well written. It is imperative that we
      study the link between SSRIs and mass shootings… and suicides. I hope
      you will join the scientific investigation with those who have been
      begging for the black box labels and more investigation in to the
      phenomena. Thank you for being part of the solution rather than the problem. Your “concerns” could be interpreted as attempts to hinder investigation, obfuscation. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that “science” is not all that “scientific” unless it truly undertakes investigations without prejudice. “I’m going to find out what’s REALLY going on here” is a lot more “scientific” than “I’m going to prove you wrong.” … And I am well aware there are BIG bucks for defending the pharma side of things.

    • Blaze_Tolkin

      It’s still worth looking into and can be tested in a controlled environment. My friend committed suicide after being put on prozac for only 5 days he went from being his happy go lucky self to being a zombie.then later hung himself in his basement at the age of 15.

      • Rich Pasco

        Blaze, I am so sorry to hear about your friend.

        Unfortunately, it is risky to draw conclusions from anecdotes like this. We might be tempted to think the Prozac caused his suicide, but it might be more accurate to say that it failed to prevent the suicide of an already-depressed individual. If he was truly happy then why, oh why, was he put on Prozac, which is only prescribed to treat depression? In any event, if he was so depressed as to need Prozac, he should have been more closely monitored while he was taking it.

        • Anon

          Unfortunately, some of these drugs can have the effect of making an already bad situation worse. So yes, while the person may have already been depressed he may not have been on the verge of suicide and adding the drug can push them over that edge. These drugs are suppose to come with these warnings, I am a pharmacy technician and when a patient is newly prescribed with one of them the pharmacist tells them that it is suppose to make them feel better but can make them feel worse and if it does to let their physician know immediately. It’s especially so in children. We have to hand out a special pamphlet to people under 18 who are prescribed any antidepressant, talking about how it can cause suicidal thoughts or actions.

        • Larry

          Then the next question is how long were the patients suffering before being put on meds? Certainly, if they’ve suffered 6 months or more without incident, than within a week of taking meds someone’s dead…
          …You do the math

          • Dr. Psych

            Alternatively, they have been going down hill for 6 months, someone finally drags them to doctor because at this point their behavior is completely out of control, they get pissed off and desperate, and one week later, boom!… you do the math.

        • Larry

          Why did the judge in PA keep putting minors in jail unlawfully a couple years ago? oh yea, financial kickbacks from the prison system.

        • K.O.

          Why was he put on Prozac? Probably because the new trend in psychiatric treatment is to give hormonal teenagers mind altering chemicals instead of encouraging their parents to be parents and/or using real therapy to solve their problems. Teenage children are just that, and almost all of them act out.

          I personally think it’s absolutely ridiculous to immediately dismiss any correlation. What drug company do you work for, Rich?

          • Rich Pasco

            For the record, I don’t work for any drug company. I am an engineer and scientist with an interest in clear thinking. I never denied a correlation between use of antidepressants and antisocial behavior. Certainly they are correlated, and I believe that their common causal factor is mental illness. I still have not seen evidence that eliminating antidepressants would prevent antisocial behavior.

          • Digi Tal

            Some of these kids were not even taking anti-depressants. Some were on Ritilan, and nothing more. Honestly, I think this whole article is a load of nonsense. One of the kids had only been on Paxil for five days? That is not enough time to have any kind of reaction to the drug! Doctors tell their patients that drugs like anti-depressants are not going to immediately take effect! It takes a week or more to notice a difference.

          • Mac

            5 days is plenty of time to have a reaction to these drugs, their benefits can take weeks to achieve, but the side effects kick in within a couple of hours of the first dose.

          • LocalHero

            Ritalin IS a psychotropic drug.

          • Savina Savina

            exactly right. the medicine was not effective yet. the underlying problem is the depression, which may have not been treated early enough.

          • gnomie1217

            What about the other elephant in the room as well ? Every person named in this article is a male and on these medications. I myself have a son with severe ADHD he was started out on Ritalin and after 2 years of taking this he started lashing out and talking about killing himself and he was full of hate. This was all coming from a 6 year old. I believe that the meds do cause a certain amount of psychosis but it is up to the parents to monitor their children. After about a week of my Son’s odd behavior his meds were switched and wha-la his issues ceased. too many parents out there are too willing to give their kids the easy fix and leave it alone. Parents need to monitor children always.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            Wow. He was put on Ritalin at age 4? Just curious, did you get more than one opinion before putting him on the drug? Also, because he was growing and his body was changing perhaps the drug wasn’t really working anymore.

          • Jen

            I agree with you that it is mental illness that it the common link. I do wonder however if certain combinations of medications if given for an incorrect diagnosis can trigger these thoughts and behaviors? Our son was diagnosed OCD/Anxiety when he was seven. We tried to do Cognitive behavioral therapy for two years without success. He was prescribed Prozac which definitely helped his OCD but the common side effect is hyperactivity. His doctor then believed he had ADHD. He prescribed Focalin despite my concern that his father has Bipolar disorder and did not do well on ADHD meds. He disregarded my concerns saying I was projecting my husbands condition on to my child.

            Five days on Focalin (combined with Prozac) our son had thoughts of killing my husband and I, our daughter and our dogs, then himself. He was 10 years old. Thankfully the thoughts scared him and he felt safe talking about them with us. We immediately took him off Focalin and within 2 days the thoughts went away. We then noticed rapid mood cycling. The bipolar “switch” was turned on. It would have happened at some point, but this just tripped the switch earlier. We added mood stabilizer which helped with the rapid cycling but hyperactivity was still a huge issue. (To the point where he could not sit in class at all) The new doctor we took him to wondered if a non-stimulant ADHD medication would help him. Within 3 days the scary killing thoughts came back. He recognized it right away and TALKED to us. We immediately took him off and the thoughts subsided. This makes me believe that yes, mental illness is the common thread here. Believe me, we tried to not put our son on medication, but when he didn’t sleep but only 2 hours in a 7 day period because his OCD thoughts were all consuming, we had no choice. I do wonder if some of these people were actually bipolar, OCD a combination of something other than what their actual diagnosis is and being treated with the wrong medications which can trip these thoughts?

          • tracy

            I hope your son finds the right combo of meds. Did the prozac trigger the ADHD and could you start somewhere else? My friend’s daughter with mild bipolar was only sleeping one or two hours a night before her diagnosis- they started her on abilify (sp?) and lithium and she is so much better now. I think the plan is to taper off the abilify–keep the lithium long term. She sleeps at night now, and told us that she feels happy for the first time ever- and she is 14. And to people who think meds are the enemy- these meds are keeping her suicidal/depressed thoughts away. I have had friends with kids who had bipolar misdiagnosed as depression, and giving depression drugs to bipolar kids has huge problems- it increases the depression and nearly triggered suicide in both those kids before the RIGHT medication was found.

        • ZZ

          I am 20, and I was put on paxil by my doctor for mild anxiety. I had no depression of any-kind. He told me it would make it better so I took it without question. A month down the road. I was miserable and having all sorts of strange side affects. My godfather then told me to get off the medication! He said he almost lost his life over the drug. I got off instantly but had to go through some nasty withdrawals, but then I was fine. And decided the anxiety was great in comparison.

          But pretty much it can cause you to have suicidal thoughts, and doctors are prescribing to everyone for everything psychological. I think it really is a big problem

        • Dr. Psych

          Rich, I agree with you. I do however have an issue with the close monitoring. Short of having someone following them 24/7, there is no guaranteed way to prevent everyone from hurting themselves or someone else if they are determined to do so. Also people lie. Psychiatrists and other doctors cannot read minds, so if someone tells them that they have no suicidal/homicidal thoughts, they generally have no choice but to believe. Yes there are some signs that can help, but generally speaking, when it comes to patient’s self report, you have to rely on it.

        • LocalHero

          I’ve read enough of your posts here to construct a response that a) covers all of them and b) is clear enough for you to understand.

          Blow it out your ass.

    • Andrew Harris

      Ah yes, the age old argument “correlation does not imply causation”. You’re
      right, correlation does not imply causation. Until it does. You
      should Google “The Internet Blowhard’s Favorite Phrase”.

      This is simple. SSRI’s have been proven to cause akathisia. It was discovered that akathisia involves increased
      levels of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which is associated with
      mechanisms that regulate aggression, alertness, and arousal. Though no further
      research has been done yet, it may also be involved with disrupted NMDA
      channels in the brain, which have both synergistic and regulatory effects on

      So yes, SSRI’s can absolutely lead to akathisia it has been proven. Akathisia can cause violence, aggressive behavior, and other behavioral issues.

      • AuroraBird

        9 out of 10 heroin users drank milk as children. Therefore drinking milk causes heroin abuse. ;)

        • Duchess Defense


        • Dale

          How can u be so coy on such a serious topic? This kind of ignorance is what allows big pharma to perpetuate their experimentation.

          • Gnostical Turpitude

            They’re paid to be coy– at least when death is a side effect. They’ll also spray you with Latin and meaningless statistics when provoked, but don’t worry– you can get the smell out with tomato juice.

        • Lynelle Hullsiek

          Look into dairy. It ain’t good. Your analogy isn’t as airtight as you might think. It does cause Type 1 Diabetes.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            I’m hoping the people that clicked thumbs up think you are joking. Are you? I mean you know that Type 1 Diabetes is a disease that someone is born with, right?

      • JamesMichael82

        ritalin isnt an ssri.

        • meggie

          Exactly what I was thinking!

        • Rebecca

          No it isn’t but it does make some kids aggressive. My nephew was on it and they had to change him to something else due to being so aggressive

      • Jeff Mace

        This is not a cause for passive aggressive slights and posturing. Good info otherwise. ..would like to learn more on said research.

      • soniashnyk

        Thank you. Drugging people is a new business. Just because there are some benefits from some drugs doesn’t mean drugs are safe. Plants were intended for our use but with discernment. It’s not hippie to use what God gave. Why are we making our kids crazy with tv, bad companions and tainted food?

        • Lynelle Hullsiek

          Don’t forget chemtrails. Not just chemicals, but human plasma(?), viruses, and God knows what else.

          • Bone Wilder

            I’m glad you people don’t have the capacity to hold any type of advanced degrees or government office. Now that’s a scary thought!

          • Lynelle Hullsiek

            All you’ve done is insult me. Big whoop, like elementary students can’t do that. Look into what I’ve written. Look up at the sky, for that matter. Believe it or not – it won’t matter, you’ll still be breathing that garbage.

      • Conor Nathaniel Anglin

        lol you call him a blowhard because he understands logical reasoning better than you. correlation helps develop a hypothesis which can be tested to prove or disprove causation, but to take correlation as proof is just stupid.

        • Jennifer Anderson

          You DO understand that each of these drugs lists “homicidal behaviors, and suicidal tendencies” as side effects don’t you? That is NOT correlation, that is causation, and it is a logical fallacy to ignore that it is right there in black and white and has been studied ad nauseum and shown that this is a very real problem with these drugs. Doctors and scientists understand very little about the way the brain works, and the way these drugs actually function and affect a change in behavior and thought in the patient. Why the insistence to say that these drugs work, but not to admit they can harm? They can’t do one without the other, that is the very essence of what a drug is.

          • Savina Savina

            stating what happens when ON a medication is what listed as a “side effect”. the drug company is not stating the med caused it. they are giving you the information from studies. if it happens during a study, it goes on the label. therefore, when a person who is treated for depression, unsuccessfully with their drug, commits suicide due to their illness, it goes on the label. it is the disease, not the med. many people are treated effectively with these meds.

      • Glowingmyway

        Genetics can lead to aggression as well as modeling of aggressive bx. This is NOT only “aggression!” This is murder and that involves a psychotic state regardless of the etiology

      • Tdbu

        “The Internet Blowhard’s Favorite Phrase” hah! Just sprayed my laptop with orange juice. Brilliant.

      • Jen L

        Wait… Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors increase norepinephrine levels? Do you know what serotonin, norepinephrine, and “reuptake inhibitor” mean?

        Because I do and that tells me why “no further research has been done yet.” I also know the difference between SSRIs and SNRIs. Do you?

        It doesn’t make someone an “internet blowhard” to stand up to an internet blowhard by pointing out their logical fallacies, but keep blowharding, blowhard.

    • Matthew Kerner

      Crap! wish I had looked at the comments before posting I could have saved some time. Spot On!!!

    • candace

      I agree with that. They were on medication for a reason. I just think people need escape goats to feel better about the tragedy. It’s easier to point the finger then except what had happened.

      • Guest

        Scape goat – not escape goat. Look it up.

    • Nicole

      Thank you for pointing this out. “There can be complications with antidepressants with bipolar patients because the antidepressants change the brain chemistry and can shoot a person into the mania stage.” Correlation is not the same as causality. However, we can and should use this correlation to examine the other factors that could have contributed to these tragedies.

    • Ty Gerhardt

      “To infer that there would be fewer mass murders if psychotropic
      medications were eliminated is as faulty logic as to suggest that there
      would be fewer heart attacks if nitrates were eliminated.”

      Agreed, but are you expecting anything less considering the title of the article?”

      The sentence “Nearly every mass shooting in the last 20 years shares
      one thing in common, and it isn’t weapons” makes no sense.

      All shootings involve weapons so the assertion that the one thing in common
      all mass shootings have isn’t weapons is patently false…and if there
      is another commonality that ISN’T weapons, the assertion that mass
      shootings have only ONE THING in common is also false.

      • Larry

        I’m not sure it takes an English major or nasa engineer to comprehend the point of the title. Another thing in common is death.
        But would it really be necessary to state that?

        I think this article is plausible and deserves some research and fact checking.

        • Susan Forest-Rode

          The author is merely trying to defend his love of guns and his efforts to prevent gun control to become stricter. He is trying to force people to believe in something that really isn’t true, or at least isn’t proven yet. Just the fact that not everyone was on the same drug let alone the same dosage and for the same amount of time is enough to discredit it. But there are so many things that are just plain wrong.

    • roger

      have you taken Zoloft before? I guess not. Doctors force those labels on patients so they can get their checks… all those medications do is cover up the problem so you can pretend its not there which causes more astronomical problems. They have problems for a reason and taking Zoloft isn’t going to help them fix it if they cant even figure out what the problem is. Works the same way as Tylenol! People should be forced to face their reality instead of being drugged up so they become a zombie and if they aren’t strong enough to make it then that’s reality because their parents failed them

      • Dr. Psych

        Roger, you have a point that people have to face their problems, medications cannot do it alone. That being said, SSRI’s don’t turn people into zombies. They make it easier for people to face challenges in their lives. If you are depressed, you simply have no energy or motivation to deal with life, you don’t eat or eat too much, sleep is all out of order. Medications help with that. The rest is up to the person.
        Also accusing someone of being “not strong enough” or blaming their parents is unfair. Depression and other mental illnesses have biological underpinning, just like insulin dependent diabetes. Unfortunately because people like you think that you can will yourself out of mental illness, there is not enough research being done to find better medications. And before someone jumps on the last statement, by “better” I mean more effective.

        • Been There, Wanted to Die

          While I agree your argument on biological mental illness, I can personally attest that some psychotropic drugs can turn you into a ‘zombie’ and have devastating physical and psychological effects. There are countless deaths caused directly from these drugs; so much so that the actual effectiveness of psychotropic drugs should be approached with absolute skepticism and utmost caution. They have the potential to be useful augmentations to severe problems, but they are HEAVILY over-prescribed and in grotesque doses!

          • Been There, Wanted to Die

            agree with*

          • Sarah

            I agree… And I’m a night nurse, sometimes our patients are receiving these medications for the first time and have VERY negative side effects and once the medication wears off they are back to their old selves. BUT I also have many pts that do absolutely fine and find the medications to be beneficial. It all depends on your body’s interaction with the pill.

          • Dr. Psych

            I agree that some medications can be numbing or sedating, SSRI generally do not do that to people. And yes, there are deaths that may be liked to these medications, however there are countless lives that are saved by these medications as well.

          • Rob

            Perhaps the teachings of Christianity would help

          • Bone Wilder

            We are trying to prevent death, not spread it further.

          • Stu Johnson

            In my time being treated for manic depression I have been on 3 different SSRIs (the type of drugs being discussed) and never felt any noticeable “drugged out” feeling. In each case, I had mild side effects (yawning, very active realistic dreams, vertigo when swimming) but they went away within a week or two. Currently, I have the same ups and downs as anyone else, but without my medication, I would have a harder time dealing with them.

          • Jastin Bieltz

            Ya those drugs that turn you into a zombie are called anti phycotics. I dont have a degree in bio pharmaceuticals engineering to here and read the stupid shit coming out peoples mouths. (Or fingers im this case). Its funny thats these people talk about how a drug does this and that and the one thing they forgot to look at is all these people have other connections with their behaviour that goes far beyond them taking Prozac, Paxil, ect… also think of how many people are talking these drugs. Then look at how man people of those are going around on a murdering spree… yeah its a small fraction. If the news said that heroin was being an epidemic becausr two people died, everyone on here freaks out thinking everyone but themselves is not on the drug. Its also funny how yall bitch and moan about no pharma but you do realize its your fault that big pharma is there. You complain about these drugs yet you take antibiotics, blood pressure meds, pain meds, ect but no one says a thing. Dont bitch because this is a website and you think your actaully doing something by hiding behind your computer. Oh well also ALL drugs come from some natural source. Im fact most drugs are naturally occurring. Do your research people, becauseb it just disgust people who went to school to get thwir PHD like myself.

          • sorry couldnt resist

            anti phycotics,ect, how many people are talking these drugs,becausr, Im fact, becausb, thwir phd really you have a phd I hope its not in medicine cause you cant even double check your spelling
            ‘becauseb it just disgust people who went to school to get thwir PHD like myself.” HILARIOUS

        • MrsMasonclarl

          Because they’re crazy?

          • Dr. Psych

            No, because they are sick.

        • Heather

          Thank you for explaining that mental illness is not something you can just get over, but the truth that there are a lot of talks who want to drug you out of your skull because they don’t want help you work through the issues. And I base that off of personal experience and frustration especially because the diagnosis changes every time I see a new one

        • NHBound

          Well said . . .depression is a real disease that can be treated . . .too many people associate depression as a mental illness rather than a chemical imbalance . . .preventing people from getting treatment . . .let’s start focusing on mental “wellness” which is supplementing deficiencies in the brain and examining faulty thinking patterns. No one would suggest a diabetic just stop using insulin and “will” their endocrine system to function properly . . .

          • Jastin Bieltz

            Yea no one said those meds where a quick fix. If you are reading the commercials and think thats whats going to happen then youre lying to yourself. No dr gives anti depressants with out telling to follow up with therapist and do to other activities to get you out of your “depression”. If he gave you the pill and said thats all. Then thats your fault for trusting a man who will do his job half assed. Also everyone has depression. Me being one of the worst. The reason why none of the meds worked was because I didnt follow up. Its a mental illness and its one that takes time to get to the point where meds are needed. But just like an addict simply not doing drugs wont keep you clean. The people that get more depressed is becauae they dont work on it with the meds. Some meds work better then others and thats for you to talk to your dr. Big pharma is about making money but you have to realize its because they know people dont want to work on their depression and want a quick fix. Well thats what you get for wanting quick fixes. I make meds everyday its just sad to know that the people i make them for, only some of them will actually do the other drs orders, while the rest bitch and moan their meds dont work… just like the people who said McDonald’s got them fat. Sad world we live in where people are to blind to see and accept their actions.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            So you think clinical depression can be cured? Please tell me how because I would love to be rid of mine forever.

          • NHBound

            My comment said clinical depression can be treated . . .with the correct anti-depressant and a committment to relearning how you process information it is possible to deal with depression . . .it’s not easy . . .I was diagnosed in 1985 and spent 13 years with a skilled therapist and have found Zoloft manages the chemical imbalance so that I don’t experience the faulty thinking or debilitating sadness . . .I wish there was a “cure” . . . it’s a lifelong process . . .wishing you peace of mind

        • Spring

          As someone who was medicated for depression as a child I couldn’t disagree more. Being medicated was a Band-Aid for what was wrong. Talk therapy re: past issues was worthless. The only thing that helped me was when I realized I had to stop dwelling on the past and take control of what I could. We’ve created a monster with learned helplessness.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        Zoloft does not work the same way as Tylenol. And alcoholism isn’t a disease. Just quit drinking you lazy incompetent SOB. Obviously you’ve never been clinically depressed. It’s not a happy pill if that is what you’re implying. Do you even know what those drugs do? I’m guessing not or your wouldn’t have made that statement.

    • Derek

      fuck what you say dude ive been on all type of meds for my illness none of that shit works to be honest it fucks with you way more than what it is helping so don’t feed that bullshit the meds were not working. you should see me in the mornings on serquile and tell me it doesn’t effect people for the worst im a mental illness patient and I have indorsed your so called “healing” drug witch you motherfuckers only use to get money serquile made me way worse then when I start having problems and even tho I am off it the effects it created have not left.

    • Mark

      Likewise, to infer there would be fewer mass murders if more gun laws were enacted is equally faulty logic. Case in point, the multiple knifing last week.

    • Bill Catz

      I fully agree however, even the pharmaceutical companies acknowledge and have warnings about suicidal and violent behavior regarding these drugs.

    • Duchess Defense

      Exactly! You couldn’t have made your point more precise. Fantastic response!

    • Jeff Mace

      Very true. But this merits a decent testable hypothesis. Some thorough methodology could be helpful.

    • Francine LoStocco

      You have a point, these people were on drugs, for a reason. I was prescribed Prozac for migraines, after three months, I thought I was going out of my mind. I am not mentally ill. So, in my opinion, the drugs were a contributing factor.

    • Heather

      You are correct that correlation does not equal proof but it also true that most pyschotropic drugs are not intended for children and/or young adults because their brain chemistry is different and they have been shown to cause increased sucididal behavior in those individuals. It even warns you on the paperwork you’re given with the rx but most people don’t bother to read it or do research themselves on their medications or diagnosis.
      Another issue is that a vast majority, based on my experience over the 20+ years! is that most p-docs don’t actually listen to you. And there are also a lot of times people are misdiagnosed due to time constraints. There is a HUGE stigma associated with mental illness and the reality is most of are no -violent with or without meds.

    • Josh

      Batman’s a scientist.

    • Jessica Clemmons

      Agreed! Let’s think horses not zebras.

    • Gnostical Turpitude

      The drugs carry black box warnings for suicide. The literature reports akathisia as a side effect. Akathisia can lead to radical personality change and violence. The smoking guns are pretty much coupled with powder burns– sometimes correlation does mean causation when 11% of ER admissions are for antidepressant-induced psychosis. It’s not even a controversial concept anymore.

      I’m noticing that the usual front groups are trying to resurrect the Scientology smear tactic again to tar any independent pharmaceutical critic. For the record I hate cults and at this point, I think psychiatry takes the prize as the most fanatical of all of them.

      Still, I don’t think the drugs should be banned, though the public deserves genuinely informed consent about the risks, prescribing doctors need to be held accountable if they don’t sufficiently monitor patients and industry needs to be held accountable when formerly law abiding people go nuts on this stuff. This is particularly true since psychiatric drugs aren’t the only medications carrying these side effects. But other than a few scattered articles like this and books which never get the Hollywood junket treatment, the public is largely left in the dark and bystanders are dying from it.

    • Columbine Rebel for Life

      I saw the same common cause of mental illness as you and I am not a scientist, people need to be careful what they point fingers at, these people were given the Rx because there was something wrong with their mind in the first place, for example Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold both had criminal prosecutions and violence tendencies way before Columbine, they were not the picked on kids that snapped like the media made them out to be. They were the bullies at school that students feared way before that awful day… I would be curious to get the past events in all the examples lives before I concluded that the Rx made them murderers.

    • Alicia Bales

      thats a lot of correlations. Too many not to question the relationship between the two

    • Jonathon Custer

      I agree, we need to discover if there is more then a casual link between the two. But all good research starts with good observations and this is a good observation.

    • SuperDelicate

      Although there has been a small number of African American mass shooters, ( the number of blacks shooting up their high school is virtually non-existent. Troubling to believe, but maybe the fact that blacks are less likely to have medical care and those who do, rarely have expensive coverage that tends to stuff costly “psychotropic drugs” into young kids; coupled with the disturbing national trend of suspending, expelling, and punishing black children at a higher rate than that of white children, who are more likely to be seen as needing treatment over punishment, also coupled with white children having more access to expensive assault weapons than black kids, has led to more medicated white children shooting up their high schools.

    • Migel Miguel

      Most of these drugs are advertised quite regularly on television. If they don’t have anything to do with these tragedies, why would they list “homicidal or suicidal” thoughts as side effects? Their own advertisements tell you quite clearly that they could lead to these tragedies.

    • 10thman

      But it is a clue and should be thoroughly investigated instead of just dismissed. This is a serious issue. Psychotropic drugs should probably not be prescribed for children except perhaps as a last resort. My generation got along without them.

    • BipolarBear

      I started on Prozac and when it quit working for some reason, I went to a different SSRI. I’ve had the same effects over the years. When I say they stopped working the time involved was counted in years. I am now on Zoloft and have been for over 8 years. Recently I had a major depressive episode and my Dr. increased my daily dose by 100 mg. Everything has drastically improved. One thing NOT mentioned in these stories is the fact other therapies are needed by most people to address on going problems caused by life events. The meds and therapy TOGETHER assist change. I was doing both and my depression was caused by major life stress. When I made the decision to change the things causing the stress everything got better along with the increase in the Zoloft.

      So my questions are these: What other factors were going on for all these people? How many people on SSRIs have success stories? How many people could be helped who are un-diagnosied? How many reports and studies have found the debilitating fact of stress?

    • Kurt Robinson

      To make a fine distinction: Correlation does not *equal* causality, but it may *imply* causality.

      Have a look at a lot of these drugs, and you can see that it has been determined in scientific studies that these drugs can increase suicidality, agitation, violent behaviour, and losing one’s sense of reality or identity. Put those together, and it certainly does imply causality.

    • Bjorn Bergeson

      Every time some one brings up the link between violence and medication, a whole bunch of scientists line up to essentially deny the connection. Honestly, I think its not that the drugs cause violence as much as it is the over-perscribing practices of doctors, the promotional tactics of pharmaceutical companies and our culture of “safe” drug use.

      Meanwhile, where are all you scientists when society starts blaming music and television for the violence? Its pretty rare I see the scientific community get up in arms in defense of the entertainment industry. But mention the connection between violence and your safe and legal drugs, and all of a sudden, there’s a whole bunch of you out there defending the effectiveness of these substances.

      The big problem is with the way we try to treat people for mental illness. Rather than confronting real psychological issues, we attempt to drug them away. Drugs don’t fix the problems. They might mask problems, but if the drugs go away and the problems still exist afterwards, isn’t that evidence of an untreated issue? I’ve personally had psychologists and doctors try to give me hard core psychotropics, when really what I needed was someone to talk to. I’ve seen you doctors and psychologists and scientists promote giving five year olds Ritalin, because they acted like five year olds. Got a problem? Drug it away. That’s pretty much the motto of western medicine these days.

      I’ve seen massive laziness on the parts of all you scientists and doctors. Why treat the root issues of a patient when you can take thirty seconds out of your day, scribble a prescription on a pad, and run off to the golf course for the rest of the afternoon, right? Oh those drugs didn’t work for you? Try these. Or these. Whatever you need, just take a pill and make it feel like it goes away. And as long as most people don’t wind up going on killing sprees or slitting their wrists you feel justified in your research and your jobs enough that you don’t even want to think about doing things differently.

      You’re right though, there is a distinction between commonality and causality. Good job. The article isn’t trying to say that everyone on these pills will be violent, or suicidal. Notice in the headline it said “one thing in common.” Not “one thing that caused it.” But isn’t the connection something that should be considered, rather blatantly writing it off? The medication may not cause most people to be violent. But when you’re mass prescribing drugs to people without looking at the individuals themselves in the first place, then you’re going to come across problems. And its patently untrue that all of these drugs are as safe and good for people as companies like Pfizer would have you believe. For being scientists it seems like a lot of your are pretty narrow-minded when confronted with evidence that falls outside of your expected results.

    • Christopher Walker

      You are exactly correct. Also, this article states that some of these SSRI meds have ‘known side effects which include suicide and/or violent behavior’. Well, if 3 or 4 of the thousands of people taking these drugs report suicidal or violent thoughts then the drug company HAS TO report this as ‘possible side effects’, even if it is an incredibly small number that experiences this. Psychotropic drugs effect everyone differently. Some people have to try several different medications before they find one that works for them. I don’t like the idea of people trying to give these meds a bad rap. For some, their lives have been saved by these drugs. Chemical imbalances are a real thing, just like a diabetic who needs to take insulin.

    • ImTheMomInTheSilverMazda

      Unfortunately, while you are correct in your logic, not wanting to get the cart before the horse, this kind of reasoning very often negates the credence that claims of causation give rise to. It is very much in the interest of pharmaceutical companies to make the same appeal to reasonable doubt-and I agree that with a legal or scientific mind adherent to the myriad variables in these cases, claims of causation do not hold up. However, given the larger background of violence patterns in the mentally ill (historically low ESPECIALLY amongst depressives for whom Antidepressants would be prescribed) we can very solidly infer that the correlation does indeed follow a causative pattern, if not one that would win the science fair or contains no outliers.

    • alwaysaskwhy

      Bullshit. People ALL react differently to these drugs and there are a gazillion lawsuits against these drug companies for EXACTLY these deadly side effects…that the drug companies KNEW about long ago. Serzone one is another one that caused teenagers in the Bay Area to walk in front of trains to commit suicide. You can Cash that check from Big Pharma, but the TRUTH won’t change. The list of SSRI suicides and Murders is much longer than the list in this article!

    • CraxyD

      OK, so what you’re saying is, “Don’t blame the medications.” right? Kinda like gun rights supporters say, “Don’t blame the gun(s).” Yet firearms and their collectors and users are demonized by the media, academia and the politicians.
      On the grounds of ‘turnabout is fair play’ I want to see everyone in the mental health fields made into a pariah of the same scale. Firearms may be the weapon of choice but it’s the drugs they’re putting these kids on that’s driving them bats#!t crazy.

    • josh

      so the fact that all the product inserts admit that the drugs CAUSE “suicidal thoughts/actions”, is just correlation right? do they pay you for this drivel? you are conflating concepts and you know it.

    • Matthew Kissell

      “To infer that there would be fewer mass murders if psychotropic medications were eliminated is as faulty logic as to suggest that there would be fewer heart attacks if nitrates were eliminated.”
      I ask why? They jump all over video games as the cause every time one of these killings happen. What is the difference, other than the drugs are doctor prescribed and told good for you!

    • Mokies

      those drugs create chemical unbalances in your brain so its basically a catalyst in every sense of the definiton

    • PBO_Go

      I doubt that insane evel of reason will gain any traction here.

    • Jeff

      I agree with Rich. I’ve taken Adderall for quite some time, Regularly from age 11 to 20. Have taken some intermittently from then til now (currently 30). I haven’t had single thought about killing anyone (unless it had to do with a video game, like assassin’s creed, kinda hard not to with that haha). So I have to say it was an instability with the individual, not the medicine.

    • Nonya bidness

      Sounds like your trying to cover up for something/someone. Ask most people who have lost someone to suicide in the past 20 years 99 out of a 100 will tell you that person was on some sort of antidepressant (whose listed side effect is suicide).

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        How do you know that? And that still doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have committed suicide even if they weren’t taking the drugs.

    • Rita Abernathy

      You are missing one very important part, that is the use of these medications on children, and the effects to a developing brain . These drugs have not been around long enough and have definitely not been given to children long enough to know the true effects on a developing brain. We definitely need to look closer at this issue !

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        Prozac has been around for over 30 years and there are tons of studies on it.

    • ManWithThe1000PoundBrain

      What is shows is that certain classifications of mentally ill people are more likely to commit a mass shooting. And, it turns out that people who are mentally ill are the people that take these drugs. Wow, what a surprise.

    • Bob Golden

      Excellent points

    • Ok to question big pharma

      This article never stated psychotropic drugs as causality. It was pointing out correlation. Correlation is PLENTY enough reason to begin an awakening. People put their blind trust in big pharma because the presupposition is that it is backed by science; therefore benevolent and right. Yet isn’t it the very nature of sciencists to use observable correlations to create theories and test hypotheses? It is unfortunate that this article did not tease out the curiosity of a scientist. Instead the scientist is trying to shut down valid thoughts and questions that might give rise to NEW assertions.
      The only inference I made was that your paycheck comes from big pharma.

    • Ok to question big pharma

      This article never stated psychotropic drugs as causality. It was pointing out correlation. Correlation is PLENTY enough reason to begin an awakening. People put their blind trust in big pharma because the presupposition is that it is backed by science; therefore benevolent and right. Yet isn’t it the very nature of sciencists to use observable correlations to create theories and test hypotheses? It is unfortunate that this article did not tease out the curiosity of a scientist. Instead the scientist is trying to shut down valid thoughts and questions that might give rise to NEW assertions.
      The only inference made was that your paycheck comes from big pharma.

    • not sure

      “I want to note that correlation does not imply causality.” There needs to be a word added to that statement: Correlation does not NECESSARILY imply causality. It can, however, imply circumstantial evidence. It may not be the lone cause of the events but in combination with other factors can be the additive factor in “pushing one over the edge”, as it were.

      Screwing with brain chemistry is always problematic since psychology is still a voodoo science, at best.

    • Rebecca

      I agree. I have taking 20mg of prozac since 2006 and it hasnt made me do any of that .I will say that things I took off people before Prozac doesn’t happen anymore.

    • dracanna

      This is an excellent reply. Let me take you correlation/causation point a step further

      I analyzed the data. If we take out the suicides where nobody else was harmed, I found something all mass shooters have in common. They are all male. It must be testicles that cause people to turn to mass shootings! Let’s remove the testicles of every new baby from now on. Problem solved, right?

      (See how correlation doesn’t imply causation? And how jumping to conclusions doesn’t mean a theory has any validity?)

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        Only remove them from the baby boys, though.

    • Jim

      Science has been wrong since it’s first practice. Eggs are bad, then good, then bad, then good. Go look at all of the black box warnings. G.S.K. has felonies now for cooking the results and bribing the FDA officials (I can recall 50 of so cases similar to this one).

      Things that science states is not possible while they treat the symptoms instead of the cause. Vets have increased the lifespan and quality of life of animals through diet, but that will not work for humans…right?

      What we call scientist and doctors today were considered “Quacks” throughout the 1800’s and prior, they just built a strong lobby when we came into the oil era.

      I personally deal with the FDA on a regular basis and can assure you they are not about real science, just politically correct science. The game is rigged and is opinion based by the strongest lobby.

      Science is so corrupt now that nobody but a fool would believe anything that comes out of a scientist mouth or from their pen/printer.

      “Woody, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

      Guess he didn’t have mental issues…or did he? But either way, he is dead and could have killed others.

      Although I understand your position and your example, it needs to be investigated since there are mountains of “anecdotal” evidence. The whole world can’t be wrong and you hold the crown of “Right” in all cases, it’s statistically impossible.

      The word “anecdotal” is used by the scientific lobby to discredit and squash any opposition to the huge money bags that science drags around.

      If one million people put their hand in a fire and get 3rd degree burns and not one comes out unscathed, you can rest assured that “anecdotal” is the cop out for modern, politically driven science.

      To make this simple, if you see a turtle on a fence post, you can bet your last dollar he didn’t get there by himself.

      Your argument works both ways, but it will never be honestly investigated.

      • Treatcausenotsymptoms

        Jim i think this is the most enlightening post i’ve read on here, please join in the conversation about this post on fb if you would like, if you wrote 1/4 of what you wrote in this post here o think they would at least reconsider their close-minded stance, i just dont know how to articulate it as well as you do sir

    • Manda Pants

      Thank you for this logical response. As much as I dislike over medicating teenagers, I took Paxil for three years in highschool and never thought about shooting anyone.

    • Julie Berry Clark

      But why has the killing gotten so frequent in the last 30 years or so? I’m 55 and we never had this sort of thing going on (or very rarely) when I was younger. I’m not accusing, just wondering. And I’ve been a nurse for 30 years, and there are so many children on so many drugs. This just can’t be normal.

    • LS1984

      I have
      an anxiety issue. Very anxious and nervous all day, every day. Not
      sure why, but it’s gotten worse over the years. After it causing some
      stomach issues, I began seeing doctors. They tried me on 8 different
      drugs over about a 3.5yr span. All the drugs were anti-depressants.
      I was told those type of drugs were not just for depressed individuals, but
      also people with anxiety. So I listened to the docs because they are
      supposed to “fix” me and make me “normal”. Well from
      personal experience, I would NEVER recommend giving those drugs to another
      living human ever again. The side effects were horrible and not just the
      physical effects. The problems sleeping, concentrating, having motivation
      to do anything productive, feeling like a zombie. I had drunk beer a few
      times while taking them and wow did it make you feel carless. Then
      when it comes time to stop taking them it’s even worse than the original
      side effects. The withdrawals are horrible. You get these
      feelings of being zapped that run throughout your body. You are nauseous
      for weeks and lose a ton of weight. The anxiety is 10 times worse after
      about a week of not taking them….so can you, a scientist, explain to me
      how these FDA approved drugs are actually improving the quality of life of
      people how drugs like these are legally prescribed??? And how
      there is supposedly no connection with any violent act??? And
      how marijuana, which is a naturally grown plant is a classified as an extremely
      deadly drug like meth??? I’d love to hear your explanation.
      Oh and now I have other medical issues that similar doctors are saying could have been related to taking those medications and now they’ve damaged me.

    • theBuckWheat

      Some correlations cannot be proved by a rigorous double blind study. This topic is one such example. So just because correlation does not necessarily imply causation, you may be called to serve on a jury next week and tempted to convict a person of a crime based on far less circumstantial evidence. The bodies are piled up high enough for me.

    • David Clausen

      You are a FUCKING IDIOT!!!

    • Gus

      There is nothing more useless than a scientist. Paid political shills.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        That was an enlightening comment.

    • james

      One of the subjects had no mental illness..was given medication for insomnia and nothing else…but you say they were all ill…explain that “scientist”

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        One person. And there is no proof to anything the author wrote. There aren’t even sources listed. For all we know he made up half of that stuff. Also, he most likely did not have access to the medical records of all of these people. Most of them were minors so unless their parents gave permission that information couldn’t have been made public.

    • stacy

      Exactly right James..he must not have read how many of these people didn’t have any mental problem just minor problems like distraction or insomnia..and the medicine made them harm themselves or others..and in a short period of time after taking the meds.. Which proves in some cases it was the meds.

    • Laila


    • TheSecularConservative

      so then, as a scientist, what would your opinion be on the causality of these events? I have had TWO kids on psychotropics. One of them, after just a few weeks, I worried I would come home to find swinging from a rope due to the attitude changes. I kept that child on the meds for 6 months (per the doctors insistence) and saw changes beyond what my mind could comprehend in personality changes. No improvements in grades and zombie like behavior. I pulled that child OFF of the meds, (sure, ill factor in your admission of a possible “misdiagnosis”, or “poor parenting choices”) I then forced said child to exercise daily and immediately changed diet…within 5 days that kid was the NORMAL, healthy, happy, loving kid that the school system never saw…The other kid suffered cognitive delays due to the meds. I know what I saw with my kids. When the doctors and schools told me to put the youngest on meds.. i pulled him out and started homeschooling. The older two? They both graduated with over 4.0 gpa’s…are happy, well adjusted (college graduate) kids..You know what made the most difference? I QUIT my job to stay at home with them and be available to them at all times. I had worked their whole lives and put my career first because that is what women do now. We breed and leave them to day care and the schools to raise…When I ask them now what made all the difference they tell me it was ME, being home, being with them at school and not worrying about MY selfish (and it was, thanks feminism) career….maybe the MORE you “know” the LESS you “know”. Before we had all of the psychotropics…we had FEW mass murders/suicides in schools prior to the 90’s and 00-teens. Perhaps the rest of us are not “scientists” (that have proven day after day, year after year that they don’t know WTF they are talking about) but we KNOW our kids. Parents know best. Not “science”. Ill leave my parenting to my INSTINCTS not modern medicinal “science”, thank you very much. I wouldn’t trade one day of stay at home parenting for a lifetime of a career options. Our kids NEED us at home with them. – Perspective from an EX feminazi. Oh.. and my marriage got better too.

      • Rich Pasco

        I would ask why you put TWO kids on psychotropics in the first place.

        • TheSecularConservative

          because that is what the doctor and the schools said to do and i trusted the doctor. Never again. Ever.

    • Multiplevitamin8

      I am going to note that they were all very young. If the drugs didn’t cause their behavior it did little to prevent it. Face it, we understand very little about the brain and how it works. Anyone on these drugs is basically a guinea pig. The drugs also usually have horrible side effects and if they do ‘work’ they don’t work for long before they have to switch to a new drug. People become dependant on them for life.

      As for gun advocacy. Our founding fathers were very clear on their reasons for the second amendment. The Constitution is no more outdated than the idea of freedom and a government run by and that is for the people. It is so the people have a way to fight tyranny. As you can see there are incidents where people are sociopathic. Anyone would agree the majority of people are good. The second amendment is to protect us from individuals or small groups of people having power and mistreating the helpless and defenseless masses.

    • Jimmie

      Do u work For the fuckin government dude. My mom lost her mind on these drugs. Its the drugs

    • purple

      Beyond true

    • Matthew Cantrell

      Mr. Pasco,
      I was on Ritalin to “help me cope” with a car accident and the ensuing heartache and such from the losses incurred as a result thereof. It later became Zoloft and then a generic form of Zoloft. I am now on a generic Celexa, which so far has been the most beneficial. I really think there must be a better way to go about prescribing antidepressants. Maybe a look into family history coupled with a CT? But before my fiancé had the doctor change my antidepressant this last time, I was losing my temper at the least little thing. I was also struggling with furious bouts of depression.

      • Rich Pasco

        Mr. Cantrell, do I understand correctly that your experience of losing your temper started when you started sertraline (Zoloft) and ended when you switched to citalopram (Celexa)? If so, it seems that the sertraline didn’t work well for you.

    • rach

      Thank you for this. Couldn’t even make it through the entire article, as I was trying to articulate my thoughts half as well as you’ve done here. Bravo!

    • Frustrated

      Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth! It is easy to take statistical evidence and skew it anyway you want to defend a point! Anyone with basic statistical education, or just plain common sense, knows that coorelation does not mean causation!

    • david pope

      the only thing that i noticed in the recent years is that alot of them had stopped taking the meds. so i agree with you that it is probably more likely the mental illness instead of the meds

    • Todd T.

      But having a heart attack isn’t a moment choice that someone makes. Committing murder is. I feel that these pills do confuse the mind and could very well contribute to these random mass murders. To me there is to much evidence to ignore it.

    • Dawn Miller

      I agree they were all mentally ill! However, I would like to know why the numbers for mentally ill patients has increased in mass numbers since lets say 1930? There is something I feel causing all this. I think instead of us worrying about paying for our past presidents to live in the life of over luxury until they day they pass, we should be taking half that money and start doing mass research to figure out why theses numbers are out of control! Just my opinion.

    • Ashley

      Guns aren’t the force that caused them to kill either but guns are being blamed.

    • P.J. Lowry

      When the warnings on most of these drugs specifically says “may cause an increase in suicidal and homicidal thoughts or actions” … that’s proof of causality.

      • Rich Pasco

        Sorry, P.J., that doesn’t prove anything. It’s just the lawyers covering their corporate asses JUST IN CASE a causality is ever proven.

    • rick l

      The problem with your theory ( and that’s all it is) is that we have always had mental illness but have had these mass shootings only in recent history same as the meds that they’re taking. You can’t just remove the thought and mood altering element from these statistics. There may not be concrete evidence but common sense says there’s a connection.

      • Rich Pasco

        I do not advance any “theory.” All I do is caution others to not jump to conclusions about theirs.

    • anonymous

      Thank you. I was thinking the exact same thing. Correlation is NOT CAUSATION. All of the people listed were on that medication for a reason…they all suffered from mental illness. They needed to be medicated.

    • Lance Hillyer

      Antidepressant medications are used to treat a variety of conditions, including depression and other mental/mood disorders. These medications can help prevent suicidal thoughts/attempts and provide other important benefits. However, a small number of people (especially people younger than 25) who take antidepressants for any condition may experience worsening depression, other mental/mood symptoms, or suicidal thoughts/attempts. Therefore, it is very important to talk with the doctor about the risks and benefits of antidepressant medication (especially for people younger than 25), even if treatment is not for a mental/mood condition.
      Tell the doctor immediately if you notice worsening depression/other psychiatric conditions, unusual behavior changes (including possible suicidal thoughts/attempts), or other mental/mood changes (including new/worsening anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, irritability, hostile/angry feelings, impulsive actions, severe restlessness, very rapid speech). Be especially watchful for these symptoms when a new antidepressant is started or when the dose is changed.

    • Cindy George

      Come on really, you see no pattern. I am so glad someone is willing to question the overuse of these medications. I personally know of one young man with chrones ,medicated in his early teenage years with massive drugs to the point of psychosis.He will sit in prison for the rest of his life for a killing and than putting a gun to his head and waited for police, pulled the trigger and than lived.I’ve known him his whole life. He begged doctors for help. Tried to kill himself twice prior. No one listened and damn sure didn’t care. Once he was 18, mom had no right to seek out help. I watch my 85 yr old father suffer psychosis on many prescriptions sent out for anxiety. He has dementia and most state right on the warning. Do not use for dementia patients. That is the only treatment doctors provide these days. Give a pill and god help you if you question their wisdom.

    • Aeva

      As a science girl and somebody that works in medicine (although with other species), I 100% agree with everything you said.

      As a person with a history of depression, I wanted to add my personal experience. I’ve been on Wellbutrin several times in the past, and had always found it incredibly helpful. During my last depressive episode, I was started on the generic (bupropion)…and very quickly started having intense violent fantasies and impulses, among other issues. In ‘real life’ I consider myself a pacifist and could never harm another living creature. I switched back to the brand name, and the issue quickly disappeared. I think some people are just more sensitive that others.

    • jeff_p101

      ignore the obvious, these incidents proliferated parallel with the drugs. involved 100% of the cases.

      • Jeffrey Benson

        In 100% of these cases, the vile perpetrators had simultaneously had H2O in their systems and been inhaling a mixture of Nitrogen and Oxygen gas… Diabolical!

    • brandon

      Just as it does not prove gun laws allow these killers to kill people, correct? If they want to do violence then they will find a way but yet all you hear about after these tragic events are how gun laws are to blame, I think the point of the article should be taken that there are other variables involved in mass shootings…

      • Rich Pasco

        Not correct. Please do not put words into my mouth just to argue with them. I wrote nothing about gun laws.

    • TakeResponsability

      Not to mention the fact that most of those people listed would have been put in some sort of psychiatric facility for a time or in most of those cases for life. We have demonized Mental Health facilities as evil places who only exist to abuse people and take away their rights.

      Most of the horrendous conditions of the old psychiatric facilities were due to the fact that they were defended and not regulated by the state.

      Most parents and or adults think a pill can fix them. In some of the cases it can. Those drugs can change the quality of life for some of those people. With other patients no amount of pharmaceutical therapy can fix their issues. The drugs were not the problem, the diagnosis and or decisions of parents or legal guardians were the problems.

    • Rebecca

      That’s what medical doctors and drug manufacturers always say. Can you prove conclusively that these people would never ever ever have committed this crime had they NOT been on the medication? No. Can you prove without any doubt whatsoever that the medication is the reason that they did? No. But to dismiss the fact that all of them committed the crimes after being prescribed the same type of medication because you don’t want there to be a causal relationship is irresponsible and reckless.

      It’s like saying conclusively that vaccinations do not cause autism, when scientists can’t tell you conclusively what DOES cause autism. Just because you can’t prove without a shadow of a doubt that a particular drug is the reason a person acted a certain way doesn’t mean you should dismiss it. Because people with mental illness are all around us and not all of them commit murder or suicide. The drugs could very well be a factor or a catalyst.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        That’s not what he said. Go back and read it again.

    • kthomp1123

      Could it not be the drugs are causing the mental illness?
      I hate to break this to you, but the nature of nitrates in action with the heart is not the same as these drugs on the brain.
      You are equating the heart and the brain, which have two different functions.

      • Rich Pasco

        No, the drugs did not cause the mental illness. The only reason they were taking the drugs is because they were already mentally ill. People who are not mentally ill don’t just start taking mental-illness medication out of the blue.

        • kthomp1123

          Ritalin does not treat mental illness. Hyper activity is not mental illness. Bipolar is mental illness – so please look at the list and see the prescription of ritalin. We are simply prescribing drugs for everything.
          Second, I am curious how you can equate brain chemistry on drugs to that of nitrates on the heart.

          • Rich Pasco

            I never did “equate brain chemistry on drugs to that of nitrates on the heart.” If you saw that, you didn’t read my post carefully. The only similarity is this: In both cases, the drugs are prescribed to treat a pre-existing condition, so you can’t blame the condition on the drugs.

          • kthomp1123

            The problem with your comment is that it’s not a fair argument.
            It’s saying that there is a pre-existing condition, but ignoring other variables.
            You don’t just need nitrates for the heart – it is typically prescribed due to angina or heart disease. That comes from somewhere. The nitrates don’t create the situation, they treat something there caused by something else.
            As opposed to psychotropic drugs, which can create the problem itself by creating an imbalance in the brain early in development (most men’s brains aren’t fully matured until they are in their early 20s), combining with environmental factors.
            I have heard this nitrates for the heart argument in regards to psychotropics for a long time, from some of the top psychiatrists in the country, but I think it’s simplifying the argument. Do they help, yes. Do nitrates help, yes. But do nitrates cause your heart disease – no. Can psychotropic drugs given at a young age cause the disease – I think we have to be willing to look at the common denominator in these killings and answer, ‘Quite possibly, yes.’

          • Jeffrey Benson

            You clearly and fundamentally misunderstand the argument, to the point where it’s barely worth attempting to explain… But I like a challenge. The saying correlation does not imply causation is commonly used in scientific study because it’s very easy to jump to a conclusion, and while that conclusion may be right… It may also be wrong. It is the check we must put on ourselves to look at all the possible causes and devise experiments to ascertain which one is correct. This is sometimes easily done, and sometimes not so easily done. At no point did Mr Pasco say that the drugs do not cause mental illness, but to jump to that conclusion creates a blanket solution for something that is more case by case. Thinking in terms of absolutes is the mark of a weak mind.

          • kthomp1123

            First, thanks for the taking the time to explain, even with the slight :)
            That’s what forums are for.
            And Rich, please feel free to jump in if you want to waste time on this.
            First, the initial disagreement. I understand what you are saying and the point of the argument. The nitrates argument is proper in many cases, but in this case, I think it simplifies a very complex argument. I take issue with ‘preexisting condition.’ Nitrates is pretty straight forward and understandable as a treatment. I am stating that the premise of preexisting is wrong. Heart disease is a preexisting condition, but to use psychotropics as a preemptive measure for something as simple as hyperactivity, which it is commonly done, affects brain chemistry, which could generate an adverse response overtime. I think we are seeing that response now. So, I take issue with the use of preexisting, which throws into question causation.
            But, alas, we may all agree to disagree.
            As for thinking in terms of absolutes, the second argument put forth, that is the mark of a weak mind – I am curious – what absolutes do you hold?
            Let’s take molesting a 4 year old child or an infant for sexual pleasure (some groups think the rite of circumcision performed in it’s traditional method by a rabbi is molestation, but that is for tradition and not for pleasure). This is why I am defining it for sexual pleasure. So, I’ll head you off at the pass on that for arguments sake. For someone without absolutes may point it out and say ‘well it’s a matter of definition’ so we will define it.
            I would think molesting a child for sexual pleasure is an absolute.
            Were you not to think this is an absolute, then you would be subject to your emotions instead of rational thought that what you are doing is morally wrong. For those who are unable to differentiate between emotional and morality in their behavior, society has laws that this is absolutely wrong.
            Absolutes in some cases are not weakness, but strength that despite the arguments of others, one would find some things so morally reprehensible they could at no time approve of them. The list goes on – what would you see as an absolute in your life? Someone saying they have the right to kill you or your family? Would you consider that being wrong an absolute?
            This is not to trap you and say, ‘if you don’t agree then you think child molestation is ok’, I’m not some fruitcake on here looking for a fight. I’m simply stating that some things are absolutes.

          • Jeffrey Benson

            If I continue this discussion I’m going to open myself to a lot of criticism, so as a huge disclaimer I just want to preface all of this by saying that this is purely for argument sake and does not reflect my views and opinions.

            As to the absolutes, I don’t believe I said they don’t exist, but simply that thinking in terms of them opens you up to weak arguments. For example, you claim your above scenario as an absolute, but if we were to take your exact scenario and add more specificity to it, like some absurd movie situation where a madman wants to corrupt you, so he has a city held hostage with a WMD and will detonate it unless you perpetrate your above absolute, would that not constitute a situation where it is the lesser of two evils? And yes I realize it’s not a realistic situation, but I’m merely using it as an argumentative device. Clearly it’s a stretch, but I think you may get my point.

          • kthomp1123

            ‘Thinking in terms of absolutes is the mark of a weak mind.’
            That can’t be misonctrued into ‘opens you up to weak arguments.’

            We may have not only killed the horse, but are beating it into oblivion. We are now into the realm of movie stars molesting children to save cities lolol.

            Best of luck on here.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            You act like you know something but if what you said were true then those drugs would not be on the market. The drugs don’t create an imbalance. Where are you getting your information from? If a person is an alcoholic who prefers whiskey I’m not going to cure him by having him drink beer instead. That’s the logic that you propose. Why would a doctor give someone a drug that would exacerbate the problem? Your comments are not logical.

          • kthomp1123

            You just proved my point.
            A person who is an alcoholic doesn’t wake up in a bar an alcoholic. They began drinking, got addicted to alcohol (because of the chemical changes it creates) and began to favor whiskey.
            The drugs do cause an imbalance, or how would they balance out the brain? LOL. The whole point is to create an even imbalance.
            If I give you enough exctasy, LSD, etc., over enough time I will create an imbalance by introducing chemicals into the brain. You will become a different person if you do enough psychotropic drugs over time.
            Secondly, if you think those products wouldn’t be dangerous, you need to look at the difference between methodone and heroine. One is made by drug cartels, one is made by drug companies in the US.
            When you have enough money and lobbying, even if your product was good in the beginning but turns out bad over time – you can make sure it stays legal.
            I.e., cigarettes.

    • chris

      Very well put. Enough said.

    • chicagorob

      Or PERHAPS, the Big Pharma companies don’t give a shit what the side effects are and what happens. I guess this is just like Cigarettes in the good old days. Correlation does not equal Causation…….until fully proven later when it is too late.

    • drewheck

      I was on a lot of these drugs as a child and they all made me feel like doing some of these things I do not have an antisocial personality disorder and I wasn’t depressed more studies need to be done to keep children who take these powerful drugs safer while taking them. I had a messed up childhood and felt abandoned by everyone and the medicine just made it worse so I could see the medicines actually causing these things to happen

    • Derrick

      I could not agree more. It is careless to infer that antidepressants are the cause of the violence. You could conclude that it is a good thing that those who are unstable are receiving treatment for their mental health issues and thus have antidepressants in their system even if therapies fell short of preventing the violence. I worked with mental health clients in New Orleans, some were violent and some were not, All were of a variety of psychoactive drugs.
      Perhaps we should focus on the lack of mental health treatment availability, lack of funding, ever shrinking funding for substance abuse treatment, and start building that infrastructure.

    • sherman

      Bullshit flag officially thrown!

    • KS Sys

      Well said.

    • Conservative_veteran

      Well don’t they really disprove their own “link” between violent mass-shootings and “powerful psychotropic drugs” by including Ritalin, which is simply a mild stimulant, in the findings? If Ritalin is to be included why not alcohol? Both effect the CNS in somewhat opposite ways and yet have both been known to lead to violence amongst all age groups and genders. The common factor for all of these shooters is mental illness. It isn’t “stereotyping” all who suffer with a mental illness to say that. There are plenty of “sane” people running around killing other people. Being mentally ill isn’t a prerequisite.

    • mark

      I believe that most of these drugs WARN of possible side effects of suicide anger and other emotional issues especially when starting them. Not all drugs work to same degree or with similar results. That’s why they have the warning to watch out for these side effects and get in touch with your doctor immediately if you experience ANY of those symptoms. Neuro-science has come a long way but is relatively young, especially with the new classes of medications. It is an ongoing research and improvement path we are taking here. It’s not perfect but is better than what we had in the past.

    • CAmom760

      I agree and most people would say that drugs alone may not be the “cause” yet those same people immediately go to “gun control” as if THAT ALONE could solve the problem.

    • Jeffrey Benson

      Well put, but perhaps too well. You make your case so well that one might think you are indicating that correlation refutes causality (which clearly you aren’t, but beware the power of weak minds).

      Correlation does not imply causality, but nor does it refute it.

      • Rich Pasco

        Of correlation does not refute causality. In some cases, correlation suggests causality, but it certainly does not prove it.

    • ryan

      I def agree with your post. I do believe this article and the argument for firearms is very similar. Blaming a weapon for someone’s violent antics is ridiculou just as it is ridiculous to blame drugs. The mental illness behind many of these ppl should be in question. To dig deeper we should look at the parents and why kids are being put on certain medications. Do they really need these drugs or are they being lazy/ bad parents? Our doctors and our society have been looking for the fast remedy for years.

    • AkHobbz

      You get paid by pharmaceutical companies don’t you? Common old man.. stop trolling and u might be able to save your soul

    • Laylla

      Rich, this is the way I see it: Entirely too many people are on these drugs. These drugs have become the cure-all or the mental band-aid for any one who might have some emotional issues. I think it’s become the common reaction instead of trying to fix what’s broken, we just dilute it in medications. These drugs were made to HELP maintain a person’s well being and I think people expect them to be some miracle cure. I know I’m preaching to the choir when I say this, but it takes more than a pill to solve a problem.

    • Betzilla

      These SSRI medications have black box warnings for teens and young adults that explain in detail that the chances of violent outbursts, suicidal/homicidal thoughts and actions do occur….
      Heart medication (nitrates) do NOT have a warning that says “by taking this medicine you are more likely to worsen your heart condition or develope new or worsening condition”.
      Your “science” in this case is faulty.
      Let’s go with you have an “opinion”… What kind of scientist are you?

    • Jason Epperson

      I’d also suggest that going off of the medication in the instances where it was taken in recent proximty would be a more likely cause than the medication itself.

    • BA

      As a family member of one of these people who actually DIED needlessly because of a medication, Zoloft…you need to remember that these are people, by stating what you wrote you listed all of these tragedies as “mentally ill” people. You don’t know that and you CAN’T make that assumption either…my cousin was 12 years old…the reason she was prescribed Zoloft was because she had a little bit of test anxiety. She was the happiest sweetest kid you would EVER meet. She had so many dreams, she looked forward to the future and she didn’t have social anxiety, she had MANY friends…you can google her…Candice Downing. Read HER story and so many like hers. These DRUGS are bad. Science is part of the reason people are so screwed up today. Chemically altered diets, drugs, beauty products were killing ourselves because of what “science” has given us the past few decades.

    • General Knowledge

      I would also note that in the US psychotropic medications are overprescribed compared to in European countries. Almost 2-3 times more psychotropic medications are given to children than compared to in Europe: Yet, there are many more school shootings here by way of students afflicted by mental illness. Now, I want to note that I am not positing that one is a direct cause of the other, but, as a scientist, you must value a potentially strong correlative relationship between two variables. I think our Americanized view and treatment of mental illness-ah, you have ADHD-take a pill….oh, you have a bit of hyperactivity-take a pill…has serious repercussions that needs to be examined further. I know that one of the main side effects of SSRI’s is suicidal thoughts and ideations…YET…find a doctor (and doctors are as close to scientists as strippers are to ballerinas)…that would take a second and not prescribe Paxil, Zoloft, etc. etc in a heartbeat….

    • ghostboy

      Heart Attacks are of the BODY
      These Murders are of the MIND

    • Ori LegFav

      No, but Causation does imply Causation. Pull your fucking head out of your ass.

      • Noah_92707

        ori leg: you obviously don’t understand what you’re saying, so why speak as if you do?

    • Cathy Cale

      Totally agree with you.

    • Rebecca Vance

      I agree. My son is on Concerta….does that mean he is going to go on a killing rampage? I don’t think so.

    • TG

      “as a Scientist” Appeal to Authority much?

    • CarolineChange

      As a fellow scientist, I’d add that if it weren’t the medications, there’d be a rash of mass shootings committed by depressed or otherwise mentally unwell people who have not been treated with medications. I don’t know of many, if any. Even Elliot Rodger had a stash of Vicodin and Xanax. Vicodin can trigger rage and violence when used as prescribed for acute pain, as it happens. Listed side effect of Xanax include depersonalization and hallucinations.

    • drxtreme

      It’s interesting that even though there are many people who struggle with depression that don’t take meds, they aren’t shooting people.

      • Meldub

        I also know a lot of people that do take those medications an aren’t shooting people, none are that young. Maybe the real problem is feeling that a medication is going to simply fix the problem that these troubled kids have instead of actually putting the effort in? I wonder how many of these kids actually had someone to talk to in a therapeutic environment, or had someone work with them before doping them up.


      Two decades ago, the FDA, Doctors, and even big Pharmaceutical companies
      figured out not give SSRI’s to children under 23-24 because the brain is not
      fully developed, under the age of 23-24. It’s not against the law to give
      children as young as three SSRI’s. Some unscrupulous pediatric doctors do it all the
      time. SSRI’s are given to pregnant women, as well and it causes deformities in
      their infants. A pregnant woman should not be taking anything. No alcohol either.

      There are lawsuits for pregnant women who’s were prescribed these SSRI’s. When I
      was a preschool teacher, almost every child between 2 and 4, was on Ritalin, or Adderal. It did
      nothing but make them either more hyperactive, or sleepy and not able to
      concentrate/focus. Teachers suggest it to parents because they want little drugged
      robots. The parents go running to their pediatricians, who have them tested by some child psychologist and the outcome is always medication. It’s appalling.

    • Bryan Jordan

      I can safely say that I never had depression until I started taking an ssri. I had a social anxiety problem, along with panic disorder, but never even considered suicide.

      the first week of taking an ssri, the doctor prescribed me a higher dose than I should have been taking, and Its all I though about for 2 weeks. I used to be scared of death, the ssri completely changed my thought process to not even care anymore, which allow the thoughts of suicide to slip into my head.

      Although the ssri got rid of my panic attracks and constant brain zings, I’m weening myself off of them right now because they made me just sit and ponder the meaning of my “useless life” and why I was even alive. Even lowering my dose by half has made my life so much better. I’ll have to find another way to deal with the panic attacks, medicine was not for me.

    • sam vetter

      one thing that I always find fascinating is the stories where there is the added statement, “We asked the Doctor to take them off ****, (for whatever reason) but they didn’t. Hello… Doctors DO make mistakes. One would think that if reactions were THAT extreme, you’d have the sense to stop yourself (although I know, its not that simple sometimes).
      What the takeaway is to me is, ppl, including the media, are always looking for some common scapegoat to push off widely experienced ills onto. Whether those ills are the symptoms experienced by the person themselves, or the ppl who were loved ones/etc. It is understandable that many ppl will look for some enemy they can blame in their head for such tragic things… but it is up to the rest of the public at large to recognize that that is often an oversimplification and excuse for otherwise very complex cases/circumstances.

    • Daniel

      Mr. Pasco, or could it be that because your a scientist your apt to side with the scientific community? I don’t believe any of the cases I read indicated any mental illness. I also know first hand the effects of anti-depressants and anti anxiety medications. I was born in 1958 and I didn’t know one childhood friend or classmate on any psyc meds in all the years I was growing up. I also know that every prescription filled for these meds is paid for with money, and that constitutes a business. Funny how that works. One could ask if there were as many violent acts committed by our young people 30, 40, 50 and so on years ago as compared to today? Let me answer that one, ummm a big resounding NO! Now I’m no big fancy high faluten medical doctor or scientist but a little back woods logic tells me if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck its probably a duck!

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        I was born in 1955. There weren’t any anti-depressants in the 60s and 70s. Hello. Prozac has been around for 30 years. My mother suffered from depression and the doctor gave her Valium. That’s not an anti-depressant. It made her worse. When she started taking Prozac in the 80s she became a real human being, not a crazy witch woman. The change was dramatic. I also know they work because I’ve been depressed my entire life and they have been a God send to me. No one even talked about depression in children when I was growing up. I never told anyone! Not even my best friends. Also, you need to read some history. There have been violent criminal acts committed by young people for ages. There may be more now because the population of the world is bigger. And we know about things as they are happening unlike several decades ago when information didn’t travel as fast.

    • Geekmom

      These meds cause people to hear voices in their heads telling them to hurt themselves or someone else.

    • Ryan

      Ok but aren’t those drugs supposed to deter those thoughts of psychotic behavior? Applied correctly they should have kicked their mental instability. There’s definitely more here than meets the eye. Maybe an agenda…

    • Cream of sumyungai

      It’s the same as with some article I read maybe a couple months back about a woman who died of marijuana “overdose”, but she was actually taking other medications as well, of course the marijuana got blamed first naturally (no pun intended).

      It’s also the same with kids who play video games and then go out shooting people. The games didn’t cause the kid to do it, it’s something that triggered it, and that they were aren’t mentally unstable in the first place.

    • ruthven78

      Agreed. If it was causative we would see severely higher numbers of homicides and mass shootings.

    • John Keegan


    • Amanda

      Sounds like, to me, some medications aren’t meant to work properly period. And that is not Not a coincidence. It doesn’t state that some of these individuals were mentally ill or had a behavioral disorder, just that when they attempted to address it, it pushed them over the edge.

    • Marlo

      I would just like to point out that while you make a great point, it is proven over and over again that people who took these kinds of pills because of anxiety and or depression were over medicated and or given drugs to strong and people who never had violent tendencies or suicidal thoughts started to have these things happen after taking medication to treat a much smaller issue. The pharmaceutical industry is not off the hook in my book. We create more monsters then would exist on their own.

    • Grendel007

      OK. So many of the medications themselves listing suicidal or violent thoughts as side-effects as well as the studies that show people who take such medications ARE at the most danger within a certain timeframe of beginning or ending treatment means nothing? As a scientist you are probably a supporter of man-made global warming as well? Great…

      • Rich Pasco

        Do not put words into my mouth. You have no idea what I support.

    • Gene Ellefson

      It isn’t about causality. It is about the truth. I don’t care if the drugs were the cause or if they were a symptom of dealing with a mentally ill person. The fact is that 1 week after Sandy Hook Sen. John Cornyn (R) of Tx stood on the Senate floor and implored Democratic leadership to work with him to deal with the issue of mentally ill people getting access to guns. Instead of answering that with common sense and logic and looking out for the American people Harry Reid thumbed his nose at Cornyn and pushed an agenda that would violate the US constitution because he was interested in taking advantage of the political situation instead of dealing with the real issue. Now we have another example in Santa Barbara that could have been prevented (perhaps) if Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi would agree to work with the GOP to get the guns out of the households where certified mentally ill people are living. Anyone taking psychotropic medications should have be banned from buying guns and should have them removed from the household until they receive psychiatric clearance and have been off the drugs for 1 year, IMO. (in a strict gun control state like California where you can buy 1 handgun a month maximum, 15 day wait list, mandatory background check, written test requirement, etc this kid was still able to legally acquire 3 handguns over a 4 month+ time). If this kid did not have access to the guns it is possible that he may have just gone on a continued stabbing spree, but maybe denying that kid guns would have shunted his plans and he may not have attempted to follow up with his evil thoughts. I am a strong 2nd amendment advocate but I believe it is time that common sense be used to keep 90% or more of these mass shootings from happening by getting guns away from mentally ill people. If John Cornyn could be in favor of it then I also could be, with the right protections put in place to prevent government overreach.

    • Char

      It also does not prove that gun control will take care of preventing mass killings or sprees ……

    • Dan Cooper

      Or, the medications did work as intended, only too well! That is, they know they’re volatile drugs and keep prescribing them.

    • Sharon Mitchell Lefante

      They also had one more similarity, mental illness.

    • Not one more

      Now that we can add the deaths at UCSB to the list, it’s not the medications, it’s the reason why they would need the medications. So much of it is social feed, via family values or lack of; moral code; parental involvement from an early age; parental expression of their moral code of what is real and what is gained with money. That evolves into the irrational behaviors, that are then “not socially appropriate”, then controlling that so they parents/family isn’t “embarrassed”, etc. All kids want boundaries. All kids need affection and good guides. Things and money have become a socially acceptable placation for real time. At that point it has been escalating every year. It’s the biggest cry for help. Yet, again, family too busy to pay attention. The remedy is that simple. Be there, in the moment, pay attention, actually listen.
      Of course, there are extreme situations. I’ve been depressed. I’ve felt the huge swings. I’ve been on meds. I’ve had no emotions or feelings.

    • Neighbor of Newtown

      This article forgot Connecticut’s Adam Lanza, one of the worst murderers! His mother believed in natural medicine and never gave him prescription drugs in his life.!

    • Simone Yvonne Regan

      As a scientist, I’m sure you also appreciate that the overwhelming number of people who report suicidal thoughts, ideations, etc. ONLY when they are on ssri’s does make the causation argument stronger than the killers only having mental illness in common right?

      • Rich Pasco

        Do not impute my thoughts “as a scientist.” To make assumptions about someone because you’ve lumped them into a class is simple bigotry. You advance an interesting hypothesis, but that’s all it is. As a scientist, I remind you that to test any cause-effect hypothesis requires testing in a controlled, double-blind experimental study.

    • bodhipuff

      And how many people are on these drugs who DON’T commit acts of violence? um, my guess is many, many many people. :)

      • Rich Pasco

        Well noted, bodhipuff. To calculate a correlation, one must count all four corners (e.g. don’t use meds and are not violent, don’t use meds and are violent, do use meds and are not violent, do use meds and are violent,)

    • CB

      Correlation isn’t causation, but where there is smoke there is fire. You can’t sit in your ivory tower and suggest the correlation isn’t reasonable and just dismiss it. This needs to be studied.

      • Rich Pasco

        Again, please don’t put words into my mouth. I never said that correlation was not reasonable. It is simply a fact, neither reasonable nor unreasonable. What I said is that it does not prove causality, especially when there is such an obvious common factor causing both Rx drug use and violent behavior: all of these people were mentally ill.

    • john Diamond

      Manufactuers warn of thoughts of suicide. Is it really a stretch to think they can lead to murder?

    • NRGB

      Agree with you Mr. Pasco, but I also would like to add, that these drugs seem to have heightened side effects in children and adolescents, which everyone of these people listed are. So while the root cause of their actions is mental illness, and not exclusively the drugs, the drugs certainly may have played a part in magnifying their symptoms.

    • Zee

      I’d like to add to this discussion, as a formerly very troubled teen (I never shot anyone but I was definitely in need of help) people, doctors included, would gladly shove thousands of pills down your throat if it will keep you from talking about your problems with them. I’m not for one second saying that is the root cause of anything, I’m only pointing out yet another factor in this discussion. Many troubled youths are just being fed a ton of different pills and never actually get the real help they need.

      • Rich Pasco

        Alas, Zee, that is a problem with medical care in the USA, not just psychiatry but all disciplines. A doctor who is only allowed five or ten minutes with a patient doesn’t have time to understand the problem so prescribes medicine he hopes will help, often with insufficient monitoring of the results.

    • Tired of Nonsense

      Well, one thing is definite: They all had access to the weapons they used. Only those with access to guns kill people with guns. Instead of trying to find a way to reduce the number of weapons available in the country, we have people making ridiculous arguments for more guns. Those people believe that the only way to prevent violence is by increasing the probability of a violent retaliation. This just doesn’t pass the common-sense test for me.

      Your response, however, suggests that you or your employer probably receives some sort of payment from these pharmaceutical companies to make such (expert/professional) comments. I’m sure you are among those who state that violent video games have nothing to do with the gamers committing violent crimes.

      The truth is that those medications come with some severe side effects that may cause a person to act irrationally, or even criminally. These medications are more dangerous than most drugs on the controlled substance list. However, because the companies are able to have lawyers represent their cause, and they can pay off so-called experts to state that the medications have nothing to do with the behavior, they continue to sell their product without any consequences. We cannot control the number of mentally-ill citizens we have. We can, however, control the medications and access to weapons. Let’s control what we can control.

      • Reggie

        If they ALL had access to guns, why didn’t they ALL use them? Guns don’t kill people. Taking away guns is like making controlled substances illegal. Only criminals will have them. You are missing the point about the drugs and turning this into an argument about guns. Once again, they ALL didn’t use GUNS.

    • Oliver Yu

      Except when said drugs (antidepressants) were evaluated and known from data to cause suicidal ideation in young adults:

      We’re not talking mere correlation. We’re talking smoking gun causality.

    • ResponsibleBreeder

      Thank you for shining the light of common sense…

    • free bird

      I can agree with this, but let’s also agree that guns don’t kill people. I’ve never had a gun point itself at me have you?

    • A reader.

      Thank you! It seems like people utterly forgot this principle of correlation and immediately jump to causation. It always seems intellectually dishonest to profess causation without investigation first. It’s sad what our society has come from.

      Further, the article said there were “multiple credible scientific studies”…citation, or the statement can’t be considered true.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        I completely agree. The author was just trying to promote his own agenda and throw the blame away from guns.

    • Terpsrule1991

      Wow! I was thinking the exact same thing as you and TRIED to articulate that. You said it SO much better!!

    • psychobitch

      Thank you! Along with the article being misleading, a large number of the incidents listed here were not mass shootings, but simple suicides. One of the most common reasons for committing suicide is…depression. Having seen it within my family, most of whom seem to have inherited mood disorders and have been prescribed anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety meds, myself included, the two suicides which occurred were because they did NOT seek help. Having been in law enforcement for 26 years, as DARE Officer , as well as being a Crisis Intervention Team Officer, and Homicide Sergeant, I know that statistically, one can only quantify the FAILURES of treatment, not the success stories, which most definitely outnumber, in a huge way, the failures resulting in violence. All of the armchair quarterbacking and blaming mental illness will only lead to more people being afraid to seek help for their disorders.

    • Jo

      I agree. It is a misleading conclusion w not enough facts. What about indicating how many shootings there were within a certain period of time and indicating how many people not on meds committed crimes? And how can it be said about the patients that didnt take their meds as directed.. For instance, taking it once a week instead of every day and what about patients that mixed meds w alcohol, or w other drugs without the doctors knowledge? What about the cases where zoloft or lexapro has benefited the well being of the individual’s and their family’s life? There are too many factors and we are not doctors. Some people really need psychiatric drugs. Some ppl really dont. But its not for us to judge bc we didnt go to school for 10 yrs like doctors did. If you want to have an opinion for or against psychiatric drugs, go get your phd first.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        And don’t forget the people taking the drug during that time period who did not commit any violent crime. I think a study would find far more people on the drug who did not commit a crime, than did.

    • nynetguy

      Good point Rich.

      “The overwhelming evidence suggests the single largest common factor in all of these incidents is that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.”

      Big deal. The I’m all these mass shooters also drank water either right before or at some point immediately prior to committing these acts. Does that mean the water made them do it?

    • Heidi

      Thank you! The whole time I was reading this, it was blatantly obvious to me that the reason these people did what they did was the underlying medical issue, not the medication. My perspective is not from a scientific stance as much as it’s from personal experience. I have unfortunately been on these types of medication for 14 years due to panic disorder and depression. I can tell you, without doubt, that my depression was what almost put me over the edge a few times. Now, that’s not to say the medications don’t have side effects. They do. Even after all these years, I’m STILL trying to find the right medication (or combo) to handle my illnesses without too many side effects. Your heart attack analogy was spot on and hopefully helps give a more concrete understanding of mental illness, which is still an abstract thing for most people.

    • Catma

      I could accept that with the exception of the ones who showed no mental illness symptoms, were seen by a physcian for other reasons (example of the man who was seen for sleeplessness, why was he put on a antidepressent drug?). When presented with a patient claiming adverse affects, shouldn’t the doctor heed the warning and change the medication? Should doctors be held somewhat accountable?

      I think it is too easy to prescribe these drugs. I was approached several times by teachers who claimed my 8 year old son needed ADD/ADHD medication because he was being “antsy in his seat”. 8 year old boy are, by definition, antsy, and he’s never had a problem since. He’s 21 now. Rather glad I didn’t trusted my judgment.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        I’m a teacher. Teachers aren’t doctors. I would never tell a parent her child needed medication or that he had a disorder. Even special ed teachers shouldn’t be making those kind of statements. Those teachers should have been reported to the principal or superintendent. I had a swim instructor try to tell me my 3 year old had ADHD. She was 16. What the hell did she know? Nothing. Only a psychiatrist should prescribe anti-depressants. And medication for ADD/ADHD is not anti-depressant medication.

    • RobH

      I disagree Rich Pasco. Giving children Prozac is insane. The treatment focuses on the symptoms and does nothing to address the etiology of the illness. The evidence is quite overwhelming that a percentage of patients will suffer psychotic episodes on SSRIs. If you deny that you are being dishonest and protecting your golden goose. How easy is it for the doctors to get paid for handing out a script and nothing else? Nice lifestyle, unfortunately the evidence is quite clear that this is a dangerous practice. People have died and you point to causality? Look in the mirror and say that.

      • Rich Pasco

        RobH, where did I suggest giving Prozac to children?

        • RobH

          You did not take issue with giving Prozac to children, which is a main content of the article. Your only comment appeared to be concerned with preserving the Prozac regimen, regardless of age. That is where you suggested giving Prozac to children.

          • Rich Pasco

            Go read my post again. I wrote nothing about “preserving the Prozac regimen.” I simply stated that correlation does not imply causality, especially when both of the correlated conditions (Rx use and violence) stem from an obvious common cause like mental illness.

          • Susan Forest-Rode

            No it isn’t.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        So Dr. RobH how would you address the illness if not with medication? How do you think someone who has severe depression will be able to get “rid of it”? Cause I’ve never heard of a “cure”, but I really wish there was one. All I know is that the medication allows one to live with the disease and to manage it so that he is not suffering as much. The only person who is being dishonest is the author who doesn’t even support his “facts” with the evidence. What percentage of patients will suffer psychotic episodes? Does it matter which medication they are on or are all equally as likely to do that? If you compare the hundreds of thousands of people who have benefited from the drugs and have not gone out and murdered anyone, or committed suicide, or broke laws, to the 50 or less mass murderers the author lists (suicides don’t count because they aren’t harming other human beings) the good far outweighs the bad. You need to re-read the article with a more discerning eye. And read some of the posts. You might learn something.

    • Nate

      Probably not the best pick for an analogy to support your view, HA!

    • Dr. Fill

      Not true. These drugs cause suppression of fear, increasing potential for suicide and/or murder.

    • pandamae

      I take a benzodiazepine and zoloft. Have been for a long time. I have no intension to kill anyone.

    • wormhd883

      I agree , I take Xanax to keep my heart rate in check because I have adrenal anomaly and my heart rate will go from normal to way over 130 with in a second and that’s just with me sitting. It has never made me feel as though I need to go kill anyone let alone myself.. They had metal issues plain and simple that the meds could not help.. or they were the wrong meds for them and needed something different….

    • bbbb

      Thank you … not everyone who takes a pill is a mass murderer. Some take them for off the books reasons , too… like migraine headaches or colitis… when traditional drugs do not work. They function perfectly normally.

    • Annette M Gagne

      Thanks for commenting this way .I do uderstand that these meds have their effect….I believe that there is a crack in the mental health care system that allows for these problems. When an adult needs mhc there should be a way that the family of the adult patient should be a part of the intervention instead of being told that it is a privacy issue…

    • Nick Nicholas

      To be certain cause and effect are not all inclusive in determining the cause of an occurrence through observed coincidence, but they, by your own example of heart disease, they do point to the root. Millions of Americans own guns, yet do not kill or harm anyone, millions more have access to guns, so just ownership, or even availability, of guns are not the cause. All of the people who take psychotropic medications have social or mental disorders, so it is significant to look at this data from the standpoint of finding the source and the cure; just as identifying that people who take nitrates might benefit, because of their common presence heart disease, from diet and exercise change. Millions of nitrate users might extend their lives through lifestyle changes because of this, but no not all will. Likewise, recognizing the link between taking such drugs and violence might very well prevent many, but not all mass murderers. This class of drugs should be treated just as illegal drugs in preventing gun ownership on the basis of probabilities, numbers that I admit I don’t know.

    • my name is…..KARMA!

      So ur sayin ALL of these are jus coincidences!?!?!?

      Who PAID u to write this???

      • Rich Pasco

        No I am not saying that at all, and nobody paid me.

    • Linda Ross Shin

      I agree. Correlation and causation are not the same.

    • Julian Ramirez Bierring

      A scientist of what?

    • Adam McClendon

      this type of logic is sound, but is diminishes the REAL possibility that these people were pushed over an edge internally. I’m sorry, but I don’t want your type of non-alarmist conclusion to mandate any policy as we go forward.

      • Rich Pasco

        I did not suggest mandating any policy. I just want people to not jump to conclusions. Fine if the observed correlation motivates more research.

    • foxy

      Who knows, maybe without the medications they would have killed even more people. I have a long experience dealing with the mental case, in our family. This person was at his best when on his medications, and very dangerous to himself and the others without them. But something must be done in order to prevent these people from getting their hands on any types of guns, that’s for sure.Yes, I agree that guns don’t kill people, but they certainly make it easier for those people with derailed minds to act out. There must be tougher laws, or full disclosure of the health records before anyone can buy a gun.

    • Panayotis Valais

      correlation with 3-4 very specific drugs , and not with all the antidepressants .

    • Dr. B

      Excellent explanation! They all took psychotropic medications at some point because they were mentally ill. It is a far stretch to day that the psychotropic medications CAUSED them to commit these acts. This is merely a correlation.

    • www

      This are the arguments the big pharmacy will use in court to avoid taking responsibility for mass murders and paying back huge money to victim families.

    • Matt

      I couldn’t agree more about correlational data. But it’s funny because the anti gun liberals spew the same correlational garbage (i.e. more homicides in states with more gun ownership) to push their legislation. I don’t think the root cause is guns, I don’t think it is psychotropic drugs. But I have always personally believed the root cause was tied to mental health.

    • Yani Haigh

      Totally agree. A bigger issue is why people take a drug that isn’t working for them. I take an SSRI and it works for me. But it required that I understand that it was OK to go to the doctor and say “this drug is crap and doesn’t work” and not just accept that he/she knew better than me. I tried 4 SSRI over 3 years, read “Listening to Prozac”, listened to other friends who were taking similar drugs…

      The above article is about as scientific as the position of the Church of Scientology. The bigger issue here is the relationship between the prescriber and the patient; and the prescriber and the drug company… If there isn’t a highly significant positive benefit that you are taking the wrong drug. As for Xanax, really it helps few people at all.

      We are basically not very good at dealing with the unknowns and having equal relationships with the medical world.

    • Shannon Pendergrass

      As a scientist do you work for the pharmaceutical companies?

      • Rich Pasco

        No, I do not, and never have, worked for any pharmaceutical company.

        • Shannon Pendergrass

          Then clearly YOU don’t know what your talking about!!! I am not a scientist, pharmacist or a doctor but I have been a VICTIM of all!

          When I got sick with thyroid disorder before they diagnosed the hypothyroid they put me on anti depressants that made me have dreams where I was murdering people and then taking my own life, they also made me angry, anti social and extremely disturbed which had NEVER been the case before but as soon as the drugs were out of my system so were the dreams and murdering thoughts and I have NOT had any thoughts or dreams like that since! I have also known others who have experienced these same SIDE EFFECTS of those pharmaceutical drugs!
          Also EVIDENCE above gives all of those mentioned above who were under doctor care and on antidepressants a much stronger case than your claim.

    • Kevin

      There are also people that smoking does not cause lung cancer, simply because lots of people who smoke die from it. Some people get lung cancer that never smoked, and some people who smoke never get cancer.

    • really!?

      I think the point is that people are getting doses that are way to high, not being monitored properly and not getting the therapy they need. All doctors do now is medicate and up the dosage. No one tries to help them mentally. Just up the dosage and hope for the best.

    • kayla

      I took prozac at 15yo and it made me freak out and break down. I won’t be surprised to see cymbalta added to the list either…

    • YOU KNOW

      The people who were taking nitrates and died of heart attacks were PRESCRIBED nitrates BECAUSE they were having heart problems. If no nitrates had been prescribed, then none of the ones who had heart attacks and died would have been taking nitrates. Your logic is faulty. If a child is NOT given mind altering drugs, then mind altering drugs cannot be the cause of their mental problems. But if they ARE given mind altering drugs, then that MAY be the cause for further mental problems. The prescriptions have warnings stating that the drugs may alter reasonable thought, cause suicidal tendencies, promote aggressive behavior. So why in the name of all that is LOGICAL would anyone permit their children to take those drugs? Sorry, but your scientific logic sounds more like snake oil salesman to me. Do you work for a drug company that manufactures these DEATH pills?

      • Rich Pasco

        And mass murderers were taking mind-altering drugs BECAUSE they were already mentally ill. Same logic as for nitrates.
        And for the hundredth time, no I do not work for a pharmaceutical company.

    • Jane Pressgrove-Donald

      Yes, thank you for pointing this out.

    • Damon L.

      Rich, as a scientist part of your role in society is to protect your profession from anything that might suggest it’s your fault kids are killing themselves and each other. Of course you’d argue that these kids were “mentally ill AND on medication”. The fact is that every single one of them was on medication, and the medication failed horribly. The medication had the opposite effect you’d claim the medication should have – your logic on this issue is flawed. A banana is a fruit, a banana is yellow, an orange is a fruit, therefor an orange is yellow? No Rich, an orange is orange. The fact is that every single one of these kids who killed themselves, or others, were taking psychotropic drugs. To admit these drugs are causing the deaths of hundreds of innocents is hard to swallow, but it might be the truth. You can argue all day long there is no proof in this matter, but look again at the list below, and hopefully you will wake up from your ignorant slumber to realize it needs further investigation. There is also no proof these drugs aren’t the cause. The sale of these drugs take in billions of dollars a year in profits and employ many men just like you. Yes, I do understand your reasoning. That doesn’t change the fact that you might be dead wrong on this issue, literally. We need to further investigate the connection between psychotropic drugs being prescribed to children, and why in every single one of these situations these drugs were a major part of the problem – either by them not working (drug failure), or by causing an episode ending in death (prescription drug side effects being the direct cause of murder/death).

      • Rich Pasco

        Damon, I am sorry, I never signed up for the role you want to assign me.
        My role is to stamp out faulty logic.

        Valid logic follows:
        Mass murderers are mentally ill.
        Mentally ill people take medicine.
        Therefore, mentally ill people take medicine.

        Invalid logic follows:
        Mass murderers take medicine.
        Therefore, medicine causes murder.

        If this isn’t obvious yet, go back to high school and take a class on logic and scientific research.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        Bullshit. They wouldn’t have been on the meds if they weren’t mentally ill. You say that there is no proof that the drugs aren’t the cause but there is NO proof that they are. Hundreds of thousands of people take these drugs, have for over 30 years. Compare that number to the number of people that went on murder sprees (that is subtract the suicides, because the author threw those in to pump up his numbers). Now look at all the people not taking any anti-depressants and see how many murders they committed in the same time frame. Rich wasn’t claiming to be right about an issue. All he is saying is that you cannot assume the drugs are the cause because there are too many other factors to consider and not enough numbers to prove beyond any doubt that it is true. The author has very little information that actually amounts to anything. There are no sources listed so we don’t even know where he got his information. And what about his agenda? Do you even know why he wrote the article? He wants to direct attention away from gun control and blame the problem on something else. so if anyone is furthering an agenda it’s the author. I suggest you read some of the comments written here you might learn something.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        Also, it’s clear that you do not understand mental illness or how these drugs even work. If you’d read some of the comments you might understand a little bit better what is really true and what isn’t. The person who wrote the article is only trying to further his agenda. He is a very biased and inaccurate reporter. So don’t believe everything you read on the internet.

    • Caitlin_Buelt

      Well put and exactly what I was thinking. I’m glad to see somebody who has both credential and understands explain this to everybody else.

    • Caitlin_Buelt

      Well put and exactly what I was thinking. I’m glad to see somebody who has both credential and understands explain this to everybody else.

    • Melinda

      Most certainly, to be blunt, there appears to be a clear reason here why many of these people were put on medication. Unfortunately, help may have come too late or maybe with our limited knowledge of how exactly the human brain works they were given the wrong medication and maybe a different one would have kept such events from happening entirely. How many times was someone else put on a similar medication and had a similar or worse outcome be entirely avoided due to the stabilizing effect of the drug upon their brain’s chemistry. There is no way we can blame these on the drugs, that does not however mean we shouldn’t look closely at the drugs and doses we are prescribed by our doctors.

      On top of that I would like to point out that many of the listed events were not mass murders. Many were simply suicide or single murders. While that’s no less comforting, it really does reflect upon the author and how we should interpret this information.

    • Joe McBlowson

      As a doctor you shouldn’t so easily dismiss the possibility. Perhaps science can prove the correlation that is if anyone were to do such a study which will never happen. I don’t have to tell you the kind of money involved in pharmaceuticals. I just don’t understand how a Doctor (aka a student of science) could so easily dismiss the possibility that drugs specifically designed to change a person’s brain chemistry could be so easily thrown by the way side. Tell me doctor. Who do you work for? Big Pharma?

      • Cin

        Something is going on with “Rich Pasco”… how the hell does his comment have 2425 up votes on this website?

        • Susan Forest-Rode

          Because most people responded positively to his logic.

      • Rich Pasco

        It is amazing how you read things I didn’t write. Why? Just so you can argue with them?

        I am a scientist (Ph.D.), not a medical doctor (M.D.) I didn’t dismiss any possibility. Correlation is a mathematical fact which does not need to be proven. And I stand by my statement that correlation does not prove causality. Again, I do not work in the pharmaceutical industry.

      • Susan Forest-Rode

        They weren’t even all the same drug. That would be like doing a study where some people took Advil, some Tylenol and some aspirin and then drawing a conclusion based on the findings. Let’s see how many people murdered someone while taking one of those three drugs. Well, then pain relievers cause people to become murderers. Was it aspirin, Tylenol, Advil? They can do an anecdotal study anyway. There are enough people that have taken each drug for a number of years that they could compare the data to see how many of those people that actually took the drug committed violent acts. Oh, but wait the author already did that, sort of. He listed instances of insanity but didn’t tell us how many were also using that same drug at that time and DID NOT commit an act of violence. That information shouldn’t be too hard to find. Why don’t you look it up and report back to us.

    • Ron Thompson

      Let me add to this a contribution I made to a discussion of the link on Facebook:

      it’s interesting, Ruth, but I’m seeing only statistics, not analysis.
      My gut reaction is NOT fear of the meds, but gratitude that at some
      point in their lives someone has attempted to treat these people. Bear
      in mind that I’m speaking as a patient and not as a doctor or
      researcher, please. Serotonin issues are real and measurable, and
      account for a number of different problems. In my case, I grew up with
      rage issues and eventually became a verbally abusive parent whose kids
      learned to hate him and whose wife should have probably left him.
      Certain stimuli, especially frustration, cause a massive fight or flight
      reaction, followed by deep depression as the adrenaline wears off. I’ve
      since found that several of these drugs prevent the reaction, as long
      as I don’t miss more than a couple doses at a time.

      the case of mass killers, though, I think there has to be more to it
      than this. I suspect that most of us have a “limit switch.” I had a
      tendency to break THINGS and threaten people, but not to physically hurt
      or damage people. I think the killers may be driven by serotonin
      problems, but in addition they lack some normal human empathy or

      other words, I’m guessing that the violence is a consequence of missed
      doses, not of actually TAKING the drugs. Obviously that in itself is a
      problem that has to be addressed. But, I’m not the expert…

    • neviander

      Or one could say that the drugs exacerbate the problem, not fix it. Curing the cancer by killing the patient (hello chemo) is not a solution. Giving drugs whose side effects are depression and suicide to people who are depressed and/or suicidal is sort of counterintuitive, don’t you think?

      • Rich Pasco

        One “could say” anything they wanted but the correlation does not prove it.

        • neviander

          Funny how correlations only have merit if it fits the “scientist’s” agenda, hello global cooling, er, warming, er, climate change. Pshaw.

          • Rich Pasco

            Correlation is not a matter of agenda, it is a mathematical formula. I never disagreed with the math, just how you interpret it. The fact is that all the killers were mentally ill, and they were taking medicine because of their mental illness.

    • Susan Forest-Rode

      Thank you Rich. You said it so perfectly. That was exactly what I was thinking. Unfortunately, too many Americans do not understand statistics or how to interpret data. I found it interesting that in so many of the cases listed the person was on the medication for such a short period of time. Those who know anything at all about anti-depressant meds know that it can take anywhere from 3 – 6 weeks for the drugs to begin working properly. Their doctors may have increased dosages because the patient needed it but it didn’t take effect soon enough. The common factor was the mental illness. Two things I also thought about is the fact that we have, to a large extent, abandoned the mentally ill to their own devices by cutting facilities which could deal with these issues when they need to. The other thing is that the list is relatively small when compared to the number of people who take anti-depressants and are greatly benefitted by them. I do not have the numbers but I’d be willing to bet it’s in the 100,000s.

    • Misanthropist

      I think to anyone with a modicum of common sense and an education, what you have said is axiomatic. It is appalling to me that the article’s author should be given such credibility much less such a large audience for this detritus.

      • Rich Pasco

        Misanthropist, if only more readers of this thread had “a modicum of common sense and an education” as you say. Have you noticed the dozens of people accusing me of taking money from “big pharma” to post what I did?

    • Mike

      True that correlation does not PROVE cause. However, the same is true that eating to many calories does not cause weight gain. What causes weight gain is the bodies inability to use energy. Having said this, everyone knows that if you intake to many calories, you will gain weight. To many calories is not the cause of weight gain, ones own body, excercise, and chemical make up causes weight gain. It is ignorant to say calories cause weight gain, but it is also ignorant to say that because there are other factors involved that ones caloric intake does not impact weight.

      The same is true in this matter. Just because violence can not be PROVEN by intake of medication. It does not excluded the impact that it makes on its subjects. In fact, there are cases that have shown violent actions while on these medications. If this where not so, then why would violence and suicide be listed as a side effect for these medications? One would be ignorant and illogical to see no relationship (not cause)!

      • Rich Pasco

        I don’t deny the obvious relationship. I don’t even deny the possibility of a causal relationship. I just said that correlation does not prove it. But please do not deny the very obvious common cause that these people were mentally ill to begin with.

    • Nate

      Why is it that most of these school shootings happen here in America?

    • RosesareRed

      Most people that are on Ritalin don’t need it. The killings have increased since these kids started taking them vs kids who aren’t on meds. All these big pharmaceuticals company’s are rich. They do not care. So you can’t say ALL of these kids were mental in the first place.

    • Chirogolf

      Either direction you choose to go in your explanation, it still comes down to the mental state of the person holding the weapon, not the weapon. It also sounds like you are a well compensated pharmaceutical employee. Have fun spending all that blood money.

      • Rich Pasco

        I guess you didn’t read my prior statement that I am not a pharmaceutical employee and I receive no money from any pharmaceutical company.

    • Chirogolf

      Either direction you choose to go in your explanation, it still comes down to the mental state of the person holding the weapon, not the weapon. It also sounds like you are a well compensated pharmaceutical employee. Have fun spending all that blood money.

    • Jay T

      Can I ask if someone is misdiagnosed could this medicine turn them in to psychopaths?

    • S Middleton

      Another common factor is that they all have fingers. It is unfair to make this assumption about medication based on such a small sample size, when so many other variables are in play. They were all different ages, lived in different areas, some were bullied, and some were not. How many examples of violence are listed above? I count 39. That is awful, however there are millions of people taking these drugs every month that don’t have a violent reaction. If these drugs were really they root cause, the article above should have a list of at least 1000 people from last month alone. Even if that were the case, that is still only 0.1% of those people reacting that way, and would still not be valid to make such an assumption.

    • mad mike

      Specious argument since you can’t disprove that the causation didn’t occur and the pharmaceutical companies are forced to admit the side affects… mad

    • Adam R

      Agree with what you’re saying, but heart attacks arent typically a side effect of nitrate use. They’re a possible preventive measure.

      I would imagine that most people aren’t “accusing” medication of the behavior, I think that most people are seeing the correlation between mental illness and possible violence. Its a much stronger predictor than gun ownership. Esp since well over 99.9% of guns aren’t used to harm anyone.

      • Rich Pasco

        You’ve got my point correctly, Adam R. Correlation does not imply causality, Correlation simply means that two things go together. As such, one factor may suggest the other. For example, if someone is taking nitrates, it is likely because he is at risk for a heart attack, but that does not mean that the nitrates would cause the heart attack. And the fact that someone is taking medicine for mental illness does tend to indicate that he is mentally ill (otherwise, why would he be taking it?). That is not the same as saying that the medicine caused his mental illness.

    • Stu Chisholm

      Thank you for writing what I was going to say! I would also point out that the vast majority of people prescribed these medications don’t kill anyone.

  • Rich Pasco

    As a scientist, I want to note that correlation does not imply causality. EVEN IF all these mass killers were taking psychotropic medications as stated, that does not PROVE that the medications CAUSED them to commit the murders. Any time correlation is observed, one must look for a possible common cause. PERHAPS the common cause in this case is that all these people committed the murders because they were mentally ill, AND they also were taking the medications because they were mentally ill. Obviously the medications didn’t work as intended, which would be a better conclusion that to assume that the medications caused the violence.

    As another example: Many people who die of heart attacks were found to have been taking nitrates, but that doesn’t prove that nitrates cause heart attacks; it proves that people who die of heart attacks and those who take nitrates both do so because of a common factor: heart disease.

    To infer that there would be fewer mass murders if psychotropic medications were eliminated is as faulty logic as to suggest that there would be fewer heart attacks if nitrates were eliminated.

  • my2pennies

    It’s about time, this glaring fact has begun getting more national attention. Big Pharma has been knowingly distributing mind-altering, highly addictive drugs to the masses for decades. They have created generations of ‘legal drug’ addicts. The lines at pharmacies are ridiculous….people waiting for their ‘medication’ that keeps them numb and apathetic…..and increasingly dependent upon Big Brother. It is appalling on so many levels.

  • Patricia Robinett

    I favor real healing, rather than masking personal and social problems with drugs, alcohol and other substances – or even “positive thinking”. We “scientific” Americans seem to pride ourselves on our ability to bypass nature’s laws with our new, improved magic inventions. But there is nothing that cannot be healed when honest introspection is allowed and lovingly encouraged.

    Medications are merely bandaids over massive mental and emotional hemorrhages and in such cases, it requires very little for bandaids to fail. There is a black box warning on SSRIs… evidence that pharmaceutical companies are well aware of the dangers of their products. Ann Blake Tracy is an expert witness in trials involving big pharma. She has been following this unfortunate trend for decades. On her website, there are updates almost daily.

    Real healing allows people to live genuinely happy lives, not just mask the symptoms.

    • probablysomejerk

      Nature isn’t always nice. Just because something is “natural” doesn’t mean it’s always for the best. Some people are born with physical defects (because that whole complex genetic recombination and making a human thing doesn’t always go exactly… perfectly), some people are born with defects you can’t see. I could be a malfunctioning organ, or the inability to produce a necessary chemical (see type 1 diabetes), or inability to regulate certain chemicals.

      Medications are not “magic inventions”. Science isn’t just guesswork. There’s this really cool thing called chemistry.

      My meds allow me to live a genuinely happy life. Without them I tend to find myself unable to be able to do the things I know I can, and want, to do. I can’t even drive safely; my attention span is too short. I don’t even realize that I haven’t been actually paying attention to the road for a while, until I haven’t been paying attention to the road for a while. And, yes, I have allowed “honest introspection” while in a lovingly encouraging environment. I don’t like that I have to take meds every day. I have attempted multiple times to live without them. I end up hating myself every time. I’ll take the little boost that allows me to be the person I know I can be. I’ll take being genuinely happy.

      When you tell someone “if only you would just” you are degrading them, and who they are. You are belittling their struggles. Everyone is different. Some people come equipped with the ability to overcome certain things that others cannot. You are you, and no one else. How dare you tell anyone how they should live, or that they are not genuinely happy because they have medical assistance!

      • Patricia Robinett

        psj, have you ever explored natural remedies for your condition? – and used them? Problem is, with meds, you have to have the money to afford them. So I always ask myself, what would someone – or yourself – do if there was no money? If there was no ‘modern civilization’ with packaged foods, pharmaceutical companies and drug stores? What then would I, you or they do? I submit that if everyone ate a natural diet and not manufactured foods, everyone would be a lot healthier and might not need chemical help from pharmaceutical companies. ? Thinking that way works for me. I just google my condition and find out how to deal with it with food or whatever… “Let food be your medicine – and medicine your food.” I have found that to be excellent advice… even tho it was said thousands of years ago. No colds or flu or other “must stay in bed” diseases for over 30 years… and I am very grateful for it.

        • probablysomejerk

          To answer your question about my exploration of natural remedies – yes. I eat well, I try to get in all of my various nutrients and food group types (my mother’s “eat all of your colors” seems to often work well). I eat foods of pretty decent quality, most of which were not pre-packaged. I try to avoid artificial coloring and flavors. Many of the high quality foods you are probably referring to, however, are out of my budget. So, please, feel free to contribute to my grocery fund. I have tried vitamins, and even bought some pricy ginko tea (didn’t do anything – but it was delicious!).

          I do exercise regularly, and lead a pretty active lifestyle (especially if we’re looking a the overall picture). It’s not “gym” active either. I get myself outside. I ski/snowshoe in the winter, and hike, camp, and backpack in the summer. I sleep well, and I try to laugh often.

          I was lucky enough to grow up with a mother who understood. Who had the same struggles, but grew up without help, and thought she was stupid and a failure for a very long time (she now has a PhD! Go mom!). I make enough money (thanks subsidized health care!) to be able to afford an insurance plan that allows me to get the medication that I need. I work hard, and put money aside for that. It’s worth it to me. Not everyone was as lucky growing up as I was. Parents don’t want to think that there is something “wrong” with their child, and then that child ends up feeling worthless, and not reaching their full potential. What would people without money do? Do you ever wonder (and this question has many answers) why some people are poor or homeless and seem to struggle getting to their feet? Do you think it’s because they like to be poor or homeless? Why do some people struggle to hold jobs?

          I had a boyfriend once that noted that I was so spacey without my meds (because I have had a lot of trouble trying to get my prescriptions filled, since I move so often – thanks a lot, stimulant abusers!), that I would never have survived in times of early human history. I noted that without his glasses, he’d be blind. (maybe I can suggest some natural remedies for him?)

          I know someone who, like yourself, doesn’t use medication, doesn’t go to the doctor, doesn’t get the flu shot. They never get sick. They are also a smoker, they often eat very poorly, and they work in a constantly stressed-out environment. This is because they have an amazing immune system (probably like you, as well). If I treated myself like that, I’d be sick all of the time. I, myself, never get the flu shot (except for this year, because the flu was so terrible). I have had the flu (and H1N1 when it came through) every year for… the past 8 years, with the exception of the past two. That’s just how my immune system is.

          And what should my friend with type 1 Diabetes do? You never answered that.

          Perhaps people forget that average life expectancy has dramatically increased with modern medicine. I don’t have time to look up data, but I’m going to guess that rich people live longer, healthier lives than poor people. What would people do if there weren’t pharmaceutical companies? Probably struggle with living a lot more, and die a lot sooner.

          • Patricia Robinett

            hi there. it appears we have both made faulty assumptions. mine is that your condition can be addressed with food… it’s unfortunate that the govt will give money for meds but not for organic food. and i was always ill early in my life – as a child and until about age 35. i am healthier now than i ever was and i avoid assiduously all the things i listed in my post above. i don’t ‘try’ to avoid ‘such and such’… i go to great lengths to avoid those things that i know are bad for me … and i go to great lengths to make sure i get those things i know are good for me. i have very little money, as i am retired and get a tiny social security check from having worked in unhealthy office environments, living from 9-5 and then passing out as soon as i got home from exhaustion. i am not going to address any ‘illness’ directly. my main ammo for myself is simple, wholesome, raw, organic salads, fruits, nuts, seeds, goat dairy, cooked beans, popcoen and a few eggs a month. i don’t do vitamins other than D3 and B12 but i use ample amounts of nutritional yeast when i eat beans and popcorn. as for rich people and poor people – it’s really all in the choices we make. there are some wise poor people and lots of foolish poor and rich people. AND we are under incredible duress due to the things that are happening in our environment – chemtrails, fluoridation, etc. it’s not easy to protect your health… i’m glad you have some wisdom about it. as for diabetes… google… there are many who simply cleanse their bodies and – voila – the pancreas begins working well again. i do not give pharmaceutical companies the credit you do. i suspect that many of our problems come directly from them… such as vaccines. have you researched what they put into vaccines – which they then inject into what are supposed to be pristine bloodstreams? they are determining now that vaccines can actually cause the problems they are tooted to prevent. do more research.

          • Patricia Robinett

            and honey, your name is well-chosen, but also ill-chosen. if you change it to a more positive name, something you would truly aspire to, then perhaps things will change for you. another element of health that i might have neglected to mention, is thought. your body is a communication device that is constantly broadcasting feedback about your thoughts and attitudes. i think i’d think up a different name for myself, so i wouldn’t be calling myself a ‘jerk’ even by the furthest inference.

  • jag uffluc

    The powers that be, along with the MSM, would rather demonize guns and gun owners than upset their big pharma cronies. The amount of money the pharma industry spends on advertising, lobbying, and “education” is obscene. Allowing them to produce their own test results is ludicrous.

  • ikihi

    i don’t think the medications had anything to do with it. I think they were just unstable people to begin with. I’ve been on paxil for 8 months now and its a wonderful drug for combatting ocd and major depression

    • chris

      I was on Paxil for only a matter of days before I had to stop taking it due to suicidal urges. I had to leave my car at work and catch a ride home in fear of driving my car into a wall. Effexor made me envision killing people after one day of taking it. I’ve been on various other anti anxiety/anti depressants w/o such symptoms. I also haven’t acted on any of these feelings. Doctors need to be more proactive informing patients about the potential risks and teaching them to be self aware. There are always subtle signs but if you don’t know how to read them you’re not going stop the meds. These people may have been unstable to begin with but I highly doubt to the extent of brutalizing loved ones

    • Jimmy

      You seemed to have faired better than every single person I’ve known who has taken Paxil…

      • Chris Treston

        So, to be sure I understand your point correctly: you are so confident in your convictions, that you believe an individual’s first-hand experience is uncommon, simply because of your own second-hand anecdotal evidence, and that you would rather call it an anomaly than consider that your beliefs may be incorrect? That’s what I believe you’re saying, but perhaps I am mistaken.

        • Jim

          If you see a turtle on a fence post, you can bet with absolute certainty that he had help getting there. There are warnings and science to back it up too.

          What we are dealing with is politically motivated science, better know as Faux Science, like climate change.

          About a year ago, maybe two, G.S.K. was convicted of multiple felonies for cooking the science for drug approval, bribing FDA and having over 50k doctors on the take spreading the good word on a drug that was known to be dangerous…exceedingly dangerous.

          TL/DR: Glaxo Smith Klein bribed the FDA to get the drugs approved, hired 50 k doctors to market it illegally and then the Federal Governments Judicial system took another 2.3 billion in payoffs to slap them on the wrist. Multiple felony charges and nobody went to jail…not even a day of probation.

          Maybe you should rethink your decision making paradigm.

  • mikey

    Weren’t they all white too, or mostly? Maybe we should regulate bases on race then, since commonality between distrubed people seems to be a rallying call.

    • therain

      They were all liberals. Sounds like that’s who should be regulated.

  • Justin Kinser

    Correlation vs. Causation… Yes, they were all on meds, because they all had psychological issues. However, since millions of people also use those meds without experiencing the rare, severe side effects, then in reality it’s more likely that the underlying conditions which led to the prescriptions are to blame for their violent acts, not the prescriptions themselves.

    You’re not doing yourself any favors with such obviously flawed reasoning.

    • TrevorLyman

      Great, so they all had guns too, and since millions of other Americans have guns and don’t kill people, then it’s obviously the people that are the problems and not guns. I’m sure you agree, I just wanted to note that correlation vs. causation applies to the larger point at hand here.

      • Justin Kinser

        I do indeed.

    • Andrew Harris

      Ah yes, the age
      old argument “correlation does not imply causation”. You’re
      right, correlation does not imply causation. Until it does. You
      should Google “The Internet Blowhard’s Favorite Phrase”.

      This is simple. SSRI’s have been proven to cause akathisia. It was discovered that akathisia involves increased
      levels of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which is associated with
      mechanisms that regulate aggression, alertness, and arousal. Though no further
      research has been done yet, it may also be involved with disrupted NMDA
      channels in the brain, which have both synergistic and regulatory effects on

      So yes, SSRI’s can absolutely lead to akathisia it has been proven. Akathisia can cause violence, aggressive behavior, etc.

    • Larry

      Then the next question is how long were the patients suffering before being put on meds? Certainly, if they’ve suffered 6 months or more without homicide or suicide, than within a week of taking meds someone’s dead… Your logic becomes mute.

  • Checkyourfacts,3668393 Chris Shanahan’s crime was not an out of the blue killing but a gang initiation. This website needs an editor.

    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

  • Me

    Would all these SHOOTINGS share 2 things in common, these AND GUNS…who wrote this article??

    • therain

      dipstick, yes, shootings would include a gun, as automobile accidents would include cars, stabbings would include knives, and so forth. What is your point, (he says knowing the blithering response I will get)?

  • Jimmy

    Meanwhile, marijuana is still illegal…

    • therain

      As it should be.

      • Eel man

        Especially when driving a car.

      • needs the weeds

        lets not start talking crazy now

  • Promixr

    They all had weapons though, the title of this article is deliberately a lie. Why the reluctance to deal with weapons? Regulate the weapons manufacturers. Regulate the dealerships. Regulate the owners. Then we would have the well-regulated society that the 2nd Amendment called for.

    • C W

      You understand the 2nd Amendment is about the public regulating the government right? Your solution is backwards.

    • therain

      You have it backwards, dip.

    • Bobbie Jo Justice

      As a liberal, I find it “interesting” that people are upset about someone having a gun clip that can hold 20 rounds, but they are perfectly fine with the u.s. government having enough weapons to blow up the world six times over, especially with all of the psychopathic, sociopathic politicians on the loose.

  • Toodumtu

    I wonder how many of these folks used marijuana early on??

    • Rich Pasco

      Toodumtu, probably a lot of them used marijuana early on, but what does that prove? Since a large percentage of the overall population used marijuana in the same time frame, and most people did not go on to become psychopaths, it proves nothing at all. It’s like saying that alcoholism is caused by breast milk. After all, a large number of alcoholics were shown to have consumed breast milk in infancy.

      • Toodumtu

        I wasn’t implying the use of marijuana would lead to the use of psychotic drugs. There have been recent studies which suggest the use of marijuana does impair ones memory banks. Recently a guy ate a Colorado marijuana cookie, cut off his penis, and jumped off a 2nd story balcony. So perhaps, just perhaps, there is some outside chance of a connection here. Maybe time and more research will tell.

        • dr. angelface

          meanwhile, hundreds of people in colorado are eating the same cookies every day and mysteriously NOT amputating various bits of themselves or going on sprees (or doing anything else out of the ordinary). IS THERE A CONNECTION? WE NEED MOAR RESEARCH!

      • therain

        It actually does prove a lot.

  • Bpotts

    Correlation is not causation… Dopes.

    • Andrew Harris

      Ah yes, the age old argument “correlation does not imply causation”. You’re
      right, correlation does not imply causation. Until it does. You
      should Google “The Internet Blowhard’s Favorite Phrase”.

      This is simple. SSRI’s have been proven to cause akathisia. It was discovered that akathisia involves increased levels of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which is associated with
      mechanisms that regulate aggression, alertness, and arousal. Though no further
      research has been done yet, it may also be involved with disrupted NMDA
      channels in the brain, which have both synergistic and regulatory effects on

      So yes, SSRI’s can absolutely lead to akathisia it has been proven. Akathisia can cause violence, aggressive behavior, and other behavioral disorders.

      You dope.

      • JamesMichael82

        youre an idiot.

    • Chris Riewaldt

      This article specifically states the correlation, but no specific implication of causation. You should probably read the article before making comments…

      • JamesMichael82

        then what is the point of the article?

  • Annomouse

    Why are people so young on psychotropic drugs? I was depressed all through school and even into my late 20’s. I also had parents who counseled me through the darkest days. Unfortanely I had to run the gamut of ssris till a suitable stabilizer could found. Some people are depressed for a time, yet others suffer a lifetime. Medication should always be the last resort. Addict Nation, a documentary, speaks heavily against the use of ssris mostly because they really are not needed in most patients.

  • Matthew Kerner

    Correlation does not equal causation. I would blame the mental illness before I blamed the drugs. Maybe without the drugs there would be more shootings? Maybe it’s water, I would imagine that every single shooter drank water within a few days prior to the shooting!

  • Michael Robert McCallum

    People who take these type of drugs are already unstable…The connection is obvious.
    Give them cannabis instead and I guarantee the crime rate would drop

    • Melinda Hampton

      Not everyone reacts well to cannabis. In fact, cannabis induced psychosis is a very real (albeit rare) thing.

  • AlanT

    If drugs cause this or not the fact remains these people killed someone and anyone prescribed these types of medicines should be on a watch list and prevented from getting access to weapons of any kind.

    • Con

      I’ve been on most of these meds through out my life, abused most my childhood… I’ve never killed anyone! Why do some people snap and others don’t?

  • Sebastian

    I would like to personally state, that I, have personally never been proscribed to anything… and want to kill you ALL! 666, mark of the beast, hail SATAN, “and all that jazz.”-Chicago. Lo what glorious English though. (doe… for everyone else on the internet.)

  • therain

    I believe they were also all liberals/democrats.

  • Octavio

    Scientist that create this. doctors and anybody that diagnost any tipe of depression in any case should first prescribe a healthy diet and regular exercise to people instead of drugs, as is being proven to make people happier. Parents that put their kids on any medication like this are just to lazy to go out their way and try a better life style for they’re kids. Scuse my English as is not my first language

  • Kim E

    Hanged, not hung.

    • Sheryl

      THANK YOU! Each time the author said “hung” I cringed. If you don’t have the capacity for rudimentary English than you probably have neither the education nor intelligence to speak with any kind of authority on the complex topics of mental health and medication.

  • spark01

    Not all of these drugs are ssri

  • Cara

    You realize that the psychotropic drugs in question are prescribed to people with psychological and emotional disorders. If you’re looking for a correlation, how about the fact that all of the above students had psychological and emotional disorders. Look no further. It’s not the medications that caused students to open fire on their friends, family, and classmates, and in many cases later themselves, it’s the disorders those medications were prescribed to treat.

  • Pingback: Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common()

  • Chris Whitley

    The government will tell you how dangerous meth is all the while sanctioning Ritalin Adderal Dexedrine Concerta and many other forms of pharmaceutical meth. I started Ritalin when I was 8 and can tell you there is no difference in the way it or any of the others taken legally and by the book made me feel compared to Meth or Ice. Ive also had psychotic episodes on Geoden? Zoloft and Prozac. The weird thing is it all started with several un diagnosed lead poisonings when I was 6 or 7. After a near fatal overdose in 06 on meth and oxy I have been drug free and have minimal mood swings. Bi polar and Deep depression seem to be at rest for many years now.. Who really knows ? I do know these drugs are really really bad from first hand experience.. The drugs caused me great harm and I could tell it was happening but parents and authorities forced me to take them leading to some really bad incidents. The last 9 years have been wonderful and my mind has come to rest.. Thank God..

  • redirtgirl

    Wellbutrin is NOT an SSRI. It is in a completely different class and works on different neurotransmitters. Google it. I Also no Dr. David would prescribe it for gallstones – that makes zero sense. Despite agreeing with the causation/correlation argument, I was finding this article persuasive until I saw the aforementioned misinformation. Now I wonder about accuracy. What is the source of all this data? Regardless – people take pharmaceutical like it’s going out of style and it’s not good for society and IMHO.

  • Pingback: Common Link in Mass shootings, but not the guns - Political Wrinkles()

  • Delana Roseberry Wilson

    At the age of 16 my cousin put a 12 gauge shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger because of an antidepressant he was on that warning labels now say not for use on children under the age of 18. Why did it take them so long to figure that out???

  • Christopher Earle

    They also all breathed oxygen, so it must be breathing that caused it (kudos to the folks with much more thoughtful examples about how correlation does not imply causality).

  • Sam

    As someone who has personally taken antidepressants for most of my life I do feel they are over prescribed. As well as the fact that when people finally do seek help with the medication they have been suffering for months if not years and expect the medicine ti work instantly which it takes weeks to work. Patient then becomes overwhelmed and commit suicide because the meds aren’t working and believes there is no hope. As for the shootings..different people react differently to each medication.

  • Steve

    Ammoland. Do I need to point out the obvious bias here?

  • Steve

    Ammoland. Do I need to point out the obvious bias here?

  • lamar sr

    I have 2 boys with autism. I have 29 years experience. They cannot dissect a living brain. These drugs are invented for other purposes and through trials they noticed it helped in other ways. None of these drugs are a guarantee fix. They are known to have problems but the doctors have to guess. The care takers need to watch. If these medications are having bad effects these people need to be rushed to the hospital. Doctors have to find the right chemical cocktail to address the issues. It’s trial and error. I don’t blame the meds. I blame the people that didn’t notice something wasn’t right and never contacted the doctor to fix it.

  • Dan Brunner

    Another thing in common, they were all taking medication because they previously showed signs of depression or some other psychiatric disorder. That’s why they were taking it in the first place! It’s not like a Dr was like I’m going to prescribe these pills just because! I’m not saying these pills did or didn’t make them do these outlandish actions, but they already had some sort of problem ahead of time. The media giving people that commit these very public actions all the coverage they get is the main problem I think. When people commit heinous crimes against other people they should never be allowed to say their names or glorify them in anyway. I think a lot of theses people do it for their fifteen minutes of Fame and other people see it and are like (I WANT TO BE ON TV TOO!)

  • Liz S

    Definitely don’t think this was solely medication. It seems like medication was either prescribed incorrectly or badly interfering with the person. The title makes it seem like the medication made this people go crazy, but I disagree. The above medications have helped 10x as many people turn their life around as well.

  • Linda

    The drugs that make Big Pharma wealthy and consumers ill are definitely causing too many suicides and mass murders. We can scientifically look at the dangers of these drugs. People need to be informed that the psych field is not based in science. There are observations made and then there’s a voting in to the DSM.!! The society is so brainwashed to believe that there is mental illness and the faux medical field of psychiatry, backed by Big Pharma,, and don’t forget approved by the FDA, CAN CURE IT!! These meds are toxic, there are no blood tests, or any tests given to patients to show that they have a so called”mental illness” . Wake up people stop.. taking your children to psychs and take them to naturopathic Drs , so they can get hormonal imbalances , neurotransmitters, blood, allergies and their total well being considered

  • Tali67

    What a stupid article! All this proves is that they all had PSYCHIATRIC CONDITIONS!!!!

    • waltinseattle

      no, just tjat someone someone said so, right or wrong

  • Skrilla Mcskrillerson

    Correlation here has nothing to do with causation. More than 70% of Americans take prescription pills daily and for a variety of disorders from anxiety to depression to outright hallucinations. More than 11% of Americans take prescription anti-depressants daily. What this article has done is make broad assumptions based on the only thing the writer could find in common between a very select group of people (this isn’t even the full list of mass shootings in our country). You know what else these people had in common? At one point in time I bet you they read a book. We should just burn all the books.

    • ah s

      We should burn the DSMV as a abomination of science, as it is the opposite-opinion claiming science.

      • waltinseattle

        we should use it more responsibly, just as the establishment is realizing the great irrrsppnsibility of its use

  • Emmett

    The real flaw in this argument is, people use psychotropic drugs all over the world. but only in the USA does it result in huge numbers of mass shooting.

  • Georgia

    So should we take everyone off psychotropic drugs, then? Or maybe, just maybe, it might be smarter to provide better and more accessible services to those suffering from mental diagnoses…

    • ah s

      Perhaps we would be better w/o these drugs. They are very addictive and many problems arise from withdrawals of weird nature. I have seen very few helped, and many harmed~impossible to say if they would have ended up in such a state w/o SSRI’s, depacote, and another top zombie med…forget the name, but I woke up in a closet-lost. Quit all, did much better.

  • Hush Hillstreet

    I remember when i first took those drugs, it felt numb dissociated like i could saw my own arm off and not even care and the thought of hurting other people wasn’t meet with the rational thought of “you shouldn’t do that, thats messed up think about what your saying” just cold numb emptiness, luckily i didn’t have any substantial vendetta’s against anyone cause I probobly would of done something stupid. those things are unnatural and shouldn’t be in the human body

  • Frank Schoner

    I’ve said this for years. I’ve also said you won’t see this in mainstream media or coming from a politicians mouth because drug companies spend a lot of money in those directions. Parents dumb enough to follow a doctors advice to put their kids on this crap should prepare a “I don’t know what happened, he was a good kid” statement today so it’s ready when the coroner’s office wheels out your dead kid from his high school alongside the many other dead kids he’s responsible for.

  • Mr.Patriotic

    I take 2 of the medications mentioned in this article. Only after being involved in a car accident and severly injuring my back. I take one to help me sleep, and one to help me with the stress and anxiety of now not being able to work and support my family. And not once have I ever thought about hurting or killing myself or anyone else for that matter. I’m no scientist but I truly believe that there’s an underlying issue of mental illness in all of cases mentioned in this article. Millions of people are taking these medications mentioned daily, and not going out and commiting mass murder, or killing themselves.

  • Duchess Defense

    I do not concur with this, regardless of the “Facts” of the medication they were on. At all. It’s stuff like THIS that gives people another reason to unlawfully restrict gun owners or to blame instead of the PEOPLE who committed such horrible acts.

    If you want to use Mental Health or SSRI’s as the reason these things occurred, you need to link the PEOPLE. Not the medication or the Disorder. Everyone handles medication differently, and it is stressed to pay attention to warning signs while taking said medications. This is a sign of irresponsible medication use NOT irresponsible gun use (though these people were 100% irresponsible with guns as well). The Guns weren’t taking SSRI’s, and according to research most of the weapons used were STOLEN from someone who rightfully had said firearms. It isn’t the Doctor’s faults or the Government’s Fault- it’s the Parents who didn’t pay attention in the younger teens, and the People themselves for not communicating with their doctors and taking the steps necessary to find a medication that works appropriately for them.

  • Stephen

    Sorry… Everything in this article may be true. But I can’t say because I stopped reading at “…going back more THEN a decade….” #credibilitylost

  • Sharron

    These points are only about children and adolescents taking anti-psychotic and stimulant medication. Maybe the research should be geared toward the changing hormones and chemicals in children and young adults and their feelings of low self-esteem and personal traumas and challenges. One day they are children and the next day they are expected to perform like adults and abandon all child-like thoughts and behavior. How frightening for the child who has received little or no guidance and direction in their lives, and perhaps have been bullied since the “get go” by both parents and peers. If you have spent your whole life with internal rages and brain chemical imbalances to no avail, you would welcome 21st century medication that helps stabilize the imbalance. Only until your imbalances have been stabilized, will you be able to start functioning in a manner that can help you deal with the imbalance that put you there in the first place. Medication in itself is not the answer. It does, however, work well in some people, along with therapy and behavioral change and other modification methods. The solution is not as simple as “one, two, three, now we’re free”. Unless you have personally walked in the shoes of a chemically imbalanced person or a person suffering from the affects of PTSD or other physical or emotionally abusive issues, you absolutely cannot grasp what that person is feeling or how they react to different situations. If a physician medicates a person to the point of being a “zombie”, maybe it’s the medical professional that needs to be looked at. Most psychiatrists and other medical doctors are dedicated to their profession and to knowing how to help an emotionally scarred person come to an adequate chemical level where medication can be stabilized and behavior modification can begin. It took years for the behavior to form. It takes years for the behavior to be changed to the point the person is comfortable with themselves and their dysfunction. If your foundation is not stable during the early formable stages of life, it will not be strong and sturdy enough to support you during the later years of life. “Mental Illness” does not fit one type of person or behavior. You are as odd to an emotionally imbalanced person, as they are odd to you.

    • waltinseattle

      well put

  • Heidi

    In Canada a judge ruled that a murder was caused by Prozac, and Adam Lanza was on drugs (the reason for the refusal of Ablechild’s freedom of information request was that it would cause people to stop taking their medication, and the last 5 years of his psychiatric records are being covered up). There is a lot of cover up of the data. Peter Breggin’s book “Medication Madness” explains a lot of it. He documents lots of people who commit crimes and suicides while on these drugs, who never had any such tendency before taking the drugs. Also, in the FDA approval trials there is a huge amount of fraud in the reporting and statistics regarding these events. Grace Jackson’s “Rethinking Psychiatric Drugs” documents some of this.

  • Heidi

    As a scientist: when you find a correlation, it might be a causal relationship, and it’s certainly worth looking into. This situation does show signs of being a causal relationship, both in the direct data and in the behavior of people. Actually, this type of problem does exist in other areas of medicine- for example, statins lower cholesterol but increase the risk of death. There is such a huge amount of cover up, fraud, and denial about what the medications do. The fact that neuroleptics cause tardive dyskinesia was denied and covered up for decades, the tardive dyskinesia being attributed to the mental illness itself. The same thing has happened with obesity and diabetes. The new neuroleptics, and some of the other psychiatric drugs, directly cause those things, but this was covered up for the first 15 years or so, and was attributed to lifestyle choices. There are instances of poor lifestyle choices among those with mental health issues and among those without mental health issues, but it is clear now that the drugs cause, exacerbate, and perpetuate these health problems. It’s not at all scientific to assume that there is not a causal relationship. That is actually bias. What’s scientific is to be willing to honestly study the issue. Apparently there is some resistance! Here is an interesting commentary on bias. Scientists can superimpose their bias on a set of data and draw a conclusion that’s not in the data- they do so often.

  • Guest

    Explain the hundreds of shootings before then, the first school shooting was in the early early 1800S there have been hundreds between then and 1994 which would be the last 20 years.SO which is more likely there are screwed up crazy people that do bad things or this study which doesn’t include 80% of school shootings and mas shootings that blames a drug.Do you know who isn’t doing enough for this kids parents that allow weapons around them and the rest of us who have yet to make it illegal for those with these conditions not to buy guns. I don’t get even get it anymore Be a caring parent take interest in your kid if there depresed take every gun out of the house get even more active in there lives.

  • Guest

    Look up requirements to joining USMC.. there is a reason you cannot join if you have a history of depression.

    • waltinseattle

      does not stop a huge % from getting in!

  • Dr. Psych

    Here’s the problem with articles like this, if they were not taking any medications, the author would still blame the doctors. Only in this case they would say “these kids suffered from anxiety and ADHD but doctors ignored their problems and did not give them any treatment.” This is just a case of warmongering.

  • Rich

    There needs to be personal accountability. We can’t blame pills,guns, tv or video games. Accept that these rare occurences just happen in nature and they will never be stopped. If you want to blame the pills, than we’d have to blame the parent who allowed their child to be placed on such medications, as well as the doctor who prescribed it. Let';s be realistic, violent attacks are RARE. In fact, super rare, Aside from making ourselves aware of that these situations can occir, there is nothing we can do to stop violence. That is what we need to accept and go on with living life. If it’s going to happen ,there are no signs, no red flags….sometimes people just snap.

  • Marne

    I’ve been taking Zoloft for YEARS and I haven’t killed anyone.. JUST SAYING

  • Bskittle

    Sounds like this study is incredibly biased and could increase the stigma about antipsychotics and mental health disorders. I hope people who need antipsychotics will take them despite this article. Have you ever considered these people were desperate and needed help. I applaud them for taking medications and attempting to help themselves.

    • waltinseattle

      and shed tears for “anosognostic” sufferers who cant undetstand they need help. fake ‘advocates” protect their right of refusal amd “die with their rights intact”

  • Ray Butler

    Most of them were liberal democrats. Liberal policies need to be banned completely. Simple.

  • Brittany Marie

    Add my sister she was on zoloft and comitted suicide after failed attemps for doctors to re diagnos her said take these sent her home and next day we found her dead from ligjting a bbq in her house the carbon minoxide killed her ! These are serious drugs and need to be re evaluated ! She was 20

    • waltinseattle

      we have a facebook page “preventable tragedies” full of similar stories. i am so sorry for your loss.

  • Melanie Summer

    Does anyone happen to notice the age of the shooters on these medications? In the technical sense, as a result of hormone changes, most teenagers are considered “sociopaths” in the general sense. PLEASE PLEASE dont go off on me and exclaim that I am saying thus every teenager is capable of such acts of atrocity, nor am I indicating that the majority of teenagers are not raised properly enough to decipher right from wrong. However, when additional hormones and chemicals are introduced to a mind that is still in its most critical of hormone changes, it appears the results can be catastrophic. I am simply stating I find the ages of all these offenders to be suspect and there has to be a correlation. I was once prescribed Zolfot and felt little to no effect by its use, positive or negative, but I am double the age of these kids.

    • waltinseattle

      my understanding from othres is that their kids were diagnosed “all over the map” for years, never successfully, until after adolescence, the biol, the diagnosis and a successful drug regime were settled on and symptoms stabilized. by then kids often are serving long jail time! tragic.

  • Andrew

    Whole artical Is complete bull shit

  • disqus_ju8oqA4edt

    Maybe they were all crazy from the beginning.

  • thinker

    If SSRI’s cause killing rampages, why don’t most mass murders occur at raves where many people are taking far beyond pharmaceutical doses of MDMA?


    First of all, the intro to the list says it is a list of “mass shooters,” yet it contains people who committed suicide. Perhaps what this shows is that those committing suicide and mass shootings often have mental disorders. And where is the list of mass murderers who are not on these drugs? My guess is that it is longer.

    Oh, and an article reprinted from Shooting Sport News doesn’t inspire much confidence that it is unbiased.

  • Amanda Fury

    It also looks like age is a strong factor. What infuriates me is that doctors prescribe these drugs without forcing the patient to see a therapist. Obviously there are bigger issues at play than just depression or anxiety. Also teens should be offered more avenues to seek counseling while in school. Really it should be mandatory.

  • Jeremy

    If a doctor deems you aren’t able to drive … He has the authority to suspend your license.
    I don’t agree with gun regulation but
    With people on these drug sure they not be monitored…. If it’s not a gun than it’s a knife or a car they inflict damage either way

  • Petey Plastic

    Most of these kids are on anti depressants… You can’t blame the medicines in which they are on for the deaths. There are millions of people on these medications yet few (I hate saying few because even one shooting is too many) in which a mass shooting happened. People do things because they want to do it and are intending to do it, Not because of a substance in their body. This is just another way to try and justify the War on Drugs and just open up a new chapter of it because they are failing with the opposition of marijuana.

  • Nikki

    Perhaps they weren’t unstable because they were on meds. Perhaps they were on meds because they were unstable.

  • Kiki

    Are we crazy? Yes we are. Tragic for the life we have! A waste!

  • julie

    I don’t know what to say. I have been clinically depressed with severe panic disorder for 30 years and a couple months. I have been on Paxil since it came out, Zoloft right before then. I ( Thank God for this)That I am able to live a normal happy life. the only time I wanted to commit suicide was when I was in an abusive relationship. I finally left, thank goodness! So I am at a stand still, I have been blessed with no side effects but now I wonder how I would be without them. I came off my paxil 7 years ago and did nothing but cry, cry, sleep, sleep, cry more. I finally went back to the Dr and he told me I needed the Paxil. I went back on it and I have been very alert and active every since. I do give God the glory for that though. He makes sure I have no side effects or think to do harm to others or myself. That being said, it takes at least 2 weeks for an antidepressant to fully work, someone very depressed like I was will have to try to hold on while taking the meds in the beginning. As far as murder and suicide, could it possibly be that in those minds something biological is in them to cause this to happen? Not disagreeing or arguing, just wondering now about all of this.

  • Pingback: Mass Shootings of the Last Twenty Years...()

  • John Isaacson

    “signal largest common factor” don’t you mean “single largest common factor”? Who copyedits here? Is this even legit?

  • Debra Carfagno

    We are over medicating the young and under medicating the old. According to the “Specialists” more then half the population has ADHD. Seriously? We have only started this over medicating in the past 2 decades or so, no real time at all to see what if any long term effects any of these drugs can or will have if at all. Just so teachers, society etc don’t have to deal with children as they are naturally….children. Yet in the same breath we know well and good, once we reach the age 60-70, we are put on the “back-burner” for medical care and treatment. Everyday there are commercials on T.V. for class action law suits for a wide range of drugs causing severe defects and even death, that were at 1 time deemed “safe” by the FDA. Perhaps the time has come to ask more questions regarding the creation, distribution and usage of said medications.

    • waltinseattle

      you missed the inventer of a ADHD repented?

  • TXCitizen

    How about this? Before we try to medicate a solution to every little issue people have in dealing with life, why don’t we opt for other things first.

    • waltinseattle

      its called differential diagnosis and its not the norm. as with antibiotics, men with prescription pads are too fast to pull out the pen

  • TXCitizen

    And another thing…. psychotropic drugs are being prescribed without being fully understood. Scientists and researchers like to think they know exactly how the brain works and how these drugs interact, but apparently they don’t. The Law of Unintended consequences is in play here.

    I’ll grant that pharmaceutical companies and doctors are trying to help, but there is a profit component to this equation, so how can we be sure that what’s prescribed is truly in the patients best interest.

  • TXCitizen

    Last point, so if these psychotropic drugs didn’t cause people to act out, then what’s the point of taking them? If they are that ineffective, then people might as well just take sugar pills.

    Point is, I think they are *VERY* effective and with some brain chemistries, they react *VERY* badly. If these drugs had been cooked up on the street rather than by a big international drug company, they would be illegal and the government would be having a “war” against them.

  • Harvey Swanson

    This is hitting a nerve with lot of people. Touchy subject. A lot of drugs are over-prescribed for profit and a quick-fix for complex problems. They are related to these violent outbursts and suicides. The culture contributes to the causes and effects, also. It’s a fact.

  • surroundedbymorons

    fuck this article

    • Native Born American

      Why? Because it doesn’t agree with your preconceived notions that guns are bad and the sole cause of violence? That makes you a huge part of the problem.

  • Missb1421

    I’ve worked as a psychiatric nurse for eight years now, without these medications my patients would not have any treatment options. Saying these medications is what caused these individuals to commit these acts, like asking which came first the chicken or the egg. Did you ever stop to think that this individuals were on these medications because of suicidal or homicidal ideation.
    It takes awhile for the right dosage and regimen to be implemented for each individual, most patients do not stay compliant, abuse these medications, or stop this medications without help from professional that are prescribing them.
    The main issues that we really need to look at here is why mental health treatment has been so neglected by our government! In the past five years lengths of stay have been cut in half. Countless inpatient state funded institutions have been closed nationwide. The problem is that our society still holds the stigma that these individuals can control this or they are scared of these individuals. My patients are ill and in need of care just as in any other disease process. But so very often these individuals are brushed aside, seen as “frequent flyers” in the hospital setting, or seen as a burden to society.

    • waltinseattle

      correct, a person needing drugs due to suicidal ideation, depression etc shoild be medicslly supervised until stable, not until merely non-symptomatic for a few hours. but thats the situation. frequent fliers mop up resources and funds . hpspital time amd jail space because we refuse to spend the ounce of $ for upfront seices .please join us in advocacy
      waltinseattle gmaildotcom if you would be so kind? treatment advocacy center, tim murphy R Penn and h.r. 3717 we need inside stories!

  • Louise Ramsay Hodges

    This is insightful information that bears more research. In order to appear most credible in reporting these statistics, please note that the past tense of a suicide by hanging is ‘hanged’, not ‘hung’.

  • Malkvian6

    Most of these drugs actually state they should not be given to children under 18 and I see a lot of kids in here taking their own life. Increased suicidal thoughts can be a side effect. I had a doctor who prescribed me many of these when I was struggling with depression and I felt it got worse not better. Some antidepressants are also prescribed for sleeping issues.
    I think they do more harm than good.

    • waltinseattle

      if by “they” you mean malpracticing docs, you are so right!

  • Mya

    I agree that we do need to review our tendency to medicate and not deal with any other underlying issues (mental health requires more treatment than just drugs), but many if these comments are accurate- you must ask yourself – which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    It would be nice to see more preventative social programs, too. Let’s spend some time examining a society where these type of violent acts are not common, and spend some dollars making THAT happen.

  • Jon St Pierre

    I Do not take medication ….

  • Stu Johnson

    I can only add my experience to the conversation. I take citalopram (celexa) as a treatment for bipolar type 2 (manic depression) and it has made my life more livable. The only episodes that occur are when I forget to take it. But, unlike some of the examples in the article, the drug I take was made for the condition I was diagnosed with. Had I been going to the doctor complaining of insomnia and been prescribed an SSRI, I’d have gone to another doctor.
    That being said, this article points the finger at one possible cause. Where it loses it’s credibility is that it ignores the amount of violent imagery that modern children have been exposed to by the time they reach puberty It also ignores the angry and suspicious dialogue that exists in our country, where it is considered “patriotic” to hate other Amercans because their political beliefs. It comes mainly from groups of white people that have words like “family values”, “patriot”, “tea party” and “liberty” in their names. So I would suggest that this article has the agenda of distracting our attention from the fact that the loonies on the fanatic right are a major cause of violence in America.
    I totally suspect that someone here will denounce me as a liberal for my opinion, proving my point. But before that happens, I belong to neither side, I believe it is the strict adherence to the rhetoric of either side is what has ruined our country.

    • Native Born American

      There is no larger a hate group than the liberal left.

      Another point… So the kids see violence from a young age. What about kids that grew up during the revolutionary war? Or the civil war? Or any other war where violence was not on the tube, but in front of their eyes? I can’t recall ever reading or hearing anything about kids committing mass murder during those times and they had unlimited access to guns.

      Please try to use your brain at least a little bit.

      • Stu Johnson

        Yes of course, people who represent the interests of anyone but the Koch brothers are angry and violent. As for me not using gmy brain, what you mean is me not being a blind member of the flock that is totally brainwashed by the particular ideology YOU believe. I don’t let anyone do my thinking for me, not you nor anyone else. Just because you call yourself a Native born American, doesn’t make you any more American than me. I was born here, not by choice and have lived here every minute of my life. I pay my taxes, obey the law, and vote in every election.I vote based on carefully considering each candidate and have yet to ever vote for one particular party in any election. I admit to voting for more Democrats over the last few years. But only since the groups I mentioned in my last comment have run most of the reasonable consevatives out of politics. Men of integrity and honor on the right died out with Eisenhower and what’s left are condescending hate mongers who question the intelligence of anyone who doesn’t submit to their propaganda. That is how you appear to me.

      • Stu Johnson

        As for the violence that kids saw in past,the real life violence they saw had consequences that were real life and usually deadly. Other like the ultra-violent video games,films, and t.v. Where the consequences of real life violence taught lessons. The modern violent entertainment only seems desensitizes kids to the reality of violence….had you used your “brain”, you’d have gleaned that from my comment.

      • waltinseattle

        your ignorance of history, even abetted as it is by socoal amnesia, is not a valid stance to make your false argument.

    • waltinseattle

      im registered R and i approve your message

  • Victoria Smith

    ok, but zoloft was touted to cause sleep,eating & sexual disorders. give that to someone depressed, what have you left them? further troubles!

  • Don

    All leftist libs…imagine that.

    • Native Born American

      Did I miss that factoid in the article?

  • Pennie Beckstrand

    I think this is bullshit…my children were on these drugs as well as myself, and we didn’t go crazy and kill anyone or hurt anyone! I don’t know what went wrong with the kids, but don’t blame the meds…how would they be if they were off the meds?? all it says is that these kids had some form of mental illness to begin with…

    • waltinseattle

      or not
      please ready comments and the lit.

  • Sue w

    A lifetime of exposure to violence, violent video games, parents not being aware of signs of onset of psych issues contributes to all of this. If you were to take many of these same people and raise them in a family with balanced nutrition, people who really raises them, and were aware of the impact of violence and guns they would have seen early the kids had a problem and would have sought treatment ahead of time for them. How do these kids even know how to use these weapons? How do they even have access to any of this stuff? Mental illness plus access to weapons is a sure fire way to get people killed.

  • Old Sparky

    Altering the chemistry of a developing
    brain to remedy some “pathology” (which is often diagnosed as any normal
    emotion you don’t like: sadness, lonliness, alienation…) is unlikely
    to happen without consequences. And there has not been enough study- we
    need years of it, which we don’t yet have- to prove SSRI’s as safe. All
    teens are cauldrons of raw emotion. It’s part of growing up. Some are
    mentally ill….but most just show normal manifestations of adolescence.

    This is NOT an argument against gun control. It is a warning about a science
    that maintains that correlation does not imply causality. In the
    meantime, we dope up our kids with powerful drugs and are surprised when
    someone goes crazy. And huge profits going to the companies that make
    them- at least half my son’s HS class was on one of them…I
    know…anecdotal. But it should still make you wonder.

    Are these tragedies the result of Was it the mental illness? Of course.
    Normal, healthy individuals don’t commit mass murder. Even with easy
    access to guns. But the rise in such things and the concomitant rise of
    youths on SSRI’s and other brain-chemistry altering drugs is a possibly
    link that any scientist cannot help but notice. Big Pharma is not
    infallible; Thalidomide, Vioxx…many others…

    But banning guns is NOT the only answer. There have to be other factors at play, and I think we are staring at one.

  • Native Born American

    There’s clearly a correlation here. However, which “cause” is at the root? We could say that water was the culprit because they each consumed water within the past 3days before the shootings, therefore water caused them to murder. I’m just wondering here; maybe they were taking the drugs because they had serious mental issues?

    Don’t get me wrong; I believe these drugs are dangerous and cause terrible side effects that further damage the mind in ways that are sometimes hidden for years before they’re realized. It would be great if have of these drugs were banned permanently, just like LSD and similar drugs. They are a failed experiment.

    • waltinseattle

      actually..extasy , dissoc tranqs, and psilcybin are clinically promising in depression. its in the peer reviewed lit. “failed” is from “war on drugs” propoganda!

  • Alex NH

    Ritalin is not an ssri.

    • waltinseattle

      so? the same issurs of side effects are relevant, as also misdiagnosis, toxic dose due to othrr reasons (see the wikipedia on grapefruit+-drug intetactions)

  • Todd

    This is ridiculous. This is an interesting hypothesis on an important question, and I would really like to know what the truth is here. However, there are huge gaps in this article, and by no means is the implied conclusion credible based off of the analysis done here.

    First of all, there is no attempt to refer to the actual scientific studies that purportedly back these audacious claims. Google searches and popular “mainstream media” sites don’t count as scientific research. Strike one.

    Second, this is a political site, so there is likely some political platform behind the claims. Science isn’t science when it’s biased by politics. Strike 2.

    Finally, what about emphasizing the fact that

    1. These people also all had mental health problems – could that be the cause instead of the medication?
    2. There are many mass murders and thousands of suicides not mentioned here – perhaps the missing cases have nothing to do with psychiatric drugs and that’s why they’re not mentioned?
    3. Plenty of people also take these same drugs but haven’t killed anybody or committed suicide
    4. Plenty of people also have mental health problems but haven’t killed anybody or committed suicide

    So how can anybody begin to think about knowing causation without accounting for questions like these? Strike 3.

    Of course, if documented scientific studies that address these types of questions do exist, I’d be very interested in knowing their conclusions.

  • Jay is right

    When you get these drugs on the warning label it say watch out for suicidal behaviors .if your depressed then given medication that may make you have suicidal behaviors event if it’s 1 in 100,000 is still to much you will always have killing take away all the guns they will knives . We have to fix the problems on a social level

  • Richard Munchel

    Every mass shooting involved a gun. Being determined to ignore that fact as the article tries weakly to do, is like trying to ignore the elephant in the room.

    • Old Sparky

      Kinda hard to have a shooting without a gun.

      That said, I could have 100 guns in my basement (I don’t and never will own a gun) and no one would be at risk because I have no mental or emotional issues. In other words, I am not crazy.

      Add mental illness into the picture and everything changes. THAT is the elephant in the room. How many mentally healthy, well-adjusted people do you see shooting up malls or schools?


      • waltinseattle

        there are asses who present themselves as “advocates” for the m.i. who who try to hide this elephant under the false belief that truth causes stigma.

  • Fool Me Once

    These drugs are a psychiatrist’s best friend. They prescribe these drugs which CREATE psychiatric symptoms so they can validate their professional existence. They assign life changing labels to people, based on a purely subjective observation of symptoms (many of which are actually induced by these drugs), and then the law backs them up and allows them to imprison people in hospitals (but only if they have DAMN good insurance). If they don’t, patients are declared cured and put back on the street. I have ZERO respect for the FAKE profession of psychiatry.

    • waltinseattle

      spoken like a zealot from mad in america or cchr, the anti-psych group from scientology and thomas szasz, who did not believe in psychiatric illness, called it a “metaphorical disease !”

  • John Sage

    Let me see if I understand this.

    *Every* shooting takes place with a firearm.

    *Some* shootings involve psychotropic drugs.

    But the most important consideration is drugs, not firearms.

    Sounds like more NRA/firearms smokescreen to me.

    That the original author is from “” might be something of a tipoff, not to mention “LibertyCrier” itself…

    • Old Sparky

      I would not defend firearms and easy access thereto.

      However…using your line of thinking:

      *Firearms* have been around for a long time.

      *Psychotropic Drugs* are relatively recent.

      The rise in shootings and the rise in use of psychotropic drugs has happened at about the same time.

      Is it an absolute? No. But it certainly is a coincidence that begs scrutiny, do you not think?

  • Glowingmyway

    Correlation does NOT equal causation. Don’t be naive. These are correlations, And these children may have very well have all brushed their teeth with crest toothpaste that morning as well. However, no one would be arguing that crest toothpaste and toothbrush caused them to kill their families! So, remember that these children in very early adolescent years, had to have been depressed, bipolar, otherwise mentally ill, and or suicidal to begin with, to have been put on this medication. The

    About the boy says hi himself after six days of Prozac, six days of Prozac, is not enough to make have any effect on the body

    • waltinseattle

      sometimes, in a wrong subject, its emough!

      • Glowingmyway

        Sometimes it’s just the person in their ill organic state

  • J.M

    The psychiatrists who authored the new DSM V (a guideline for diagnosing “mental illness”) are all in the pockets of large pharmaceutical companies. Money is the bottom line for these psychiatrists and patients are too obsessed looking for a “quick fix” to an ideal of happiness that doesn’t exist to realize the danger of altering your brain chemistry…

    • waltinseattle

      no they are talking like we are here, trying to rein in the cowboys with prescriptoon privleges. its new, but happening! fast fix cowboys!

  • Jarrod

    I think our society is sick and should take some of the blame for creating these mass murderers. Why does Is it that America seems to own the patent on these mass school shootings. If you look at all school shootings across the world over the past 20 years, America owns close to 80% of them. America is not the only place in the world that prescribes drugs? Now I do realize that some folks are just naturally more unbalanced than others, but I think it’s the Environment and systems in America that are the deep rooted issue.

    • waltinseattle

      environmental causes are a ” do not talk about” topic!

  • Andrea

    #rantoftheweek Please don’t let articles like this prevent you from treating depression or encouraging others to. It is well known that if you abruptly stop taking your medication or arent otherwise taking it as prescribed that it does certainty cause behavioral changes and increased suicidal thinking. It makes sense- youve started to finally balance chemical interactions and trained your neurons to expect higher amounts of serotonin or norepinephrine or dopamine (depending on what drug you’re on).. then you decide you’re fine or dont like the sode effects so you stop taking the meds. Well your neurons arejt ready for a major change like that and you have now removed the ability to capture serotonin (or the like).. what would you expect should happen?? If you can treat your depression without meds then go ahead but most cannont as it is a chemical problem. If you start meds, your doctor should be following up with you frequently at first to monitor your mood and suicidal thoughts (if you have any). If you want off the meds, you MUST do this gradually or you’ll only crash harder.
    Articles like this are guilty of first basic principle of statistics- correlation does not equal causation! What are the other mitigating factors involved? What research has been conducted to support that? Etc..
    These people were all disturbed, no doubt, but ssri’s are INCREDIBLY common and 99.99% of people will not go on a killing spree as a result. More research is needed here before we go fueling to ‘meds are bad’ fire in these kinds of disorders.

    • Mary Lee Cathey

      Thank you! You said what I was getting ready to post.

  • mistercrispy

    “Nearly” every mass shooting? Talk about selective sourcing. Pick and choose the shootings that work, leave the ones out that don’t fit. Correlation does not prove causation. This is some dangerous logic. You know what 100% of all these shootings had in common? Guns.

    • waltinseattle

      sometimes No guns. sometimes mothers with cars kill on purpose. sometimes people suicide with rope

  • mistercrispy

    The issue is allowing guns in the hands of those with mental illness, NOT the drugs used to combat mental illness. You know how you can at least START to combat that problem? GUN LAWS. This is some depressingly transparent pro-NRA propaganda nonsense.

  • Beau7796

    How come God has not been mentioned in this discussion? Have we come so far away from Him in this society that we’ve forgot that God can heal the mentally ill?
    I think if we would get back to teaching our children to pray and give them a good old fashion spanking ( on the buttocks and yes it might even hurt a little ) when they said or did something wrong it might change the way they think when they grow up? And while I’m on it, games and movies are desensitizing our youth to things like murder, fornication, and general unruliness.
    A return to the way we used to parent children will yield the results of better manners, level headedness, and respect for those around you. The only drugs my dad used to make me act right was a thick leather belt. And no I don’t hate him.

    • waltinseattle

      biological, genetic fiseases dont heed god! call it the devol, trust GOOD science

  • karen sorgeloos

    I agree with the scientist! Clearly these individuals were diagnosed with some mental illness and that is why they were medicated.People like this may kill with medication and some may kill without medication and it would be ridiculous to blame it on the drug!!!

    • waltinseattle

      blame diagnosis a lot more
      if yoire just having blues but take drugs for seriois, major depressiom, expect opposite effects. read the psy lit, docs dont!

  • forgetyoutooo

    How many of the children were forced onto Rytalin or Adderall when they were in elementary school?

  • guessture

    Having been on several different ssri’s and other drugs over the course of many years, I can say they are not for everyone. The problem I feel has a lot to do with people, especially parents with young children, need to do their research and take control of their healthcare. When I took the power to decide what I needed and didn’t need away from the doctor I was able to get to where I needed with my meds. Its so important to have a good relationship with your doctor and getting all the information you can before you let them prescribe anything. It was a very hard road being a guinea pig. Take control. It means everything.

  • Jesse

    Finally, it’s said and has been proven that there is a correlation.

  • Tiffany Roberts

    Mr. Pasco makes a very valid point. All of these incidents occured due to someone’s mental illness. Wake up parents and families and get help when help is needed. Drugs alone rarely cure severe mental illness alone. Obviously, someone must be mentally ill to engage in the above behaviors.

    • waltinseattle

      drugs we have dont ever CURE M.I., but they can, (when used properly, on the CORRECTLY DIAGMOSED patient) help with SYMPTOMS. ONLY 20% the scripts come from those with the traiming tp fiagnose! and even them they cut corners. aned no, not only tje truly mentally ill engage in thes behaviors
      those who exhibit some symptoms of m.i.
      perhaps do. se do so from other illnesses or poisonimg. others go psychotic with side effects which are NOT HIDDEN, JUST IGNORED! one problem is high levels, which in the wrong patients, have opppsite of the intended effects. opefruit drug interactions. often this happens for reasons not well publicized. grapefruit juice is enough. see wikipedia on grapfruit-drug interactions. a looong list and ssri are promnently listed as are many other mental drugs. dont snap judge the drugs as bad, dont let the malpractice slip by !

  • Nate

    Having witnessed plenty first hand how true this story is I need to weigh in. First of all, Mr. Pasco, as a scientist you should be ashamed of yourself. Your contribution to this comments section was beyond counter-productive. Yes: correlation does not equal causation. BUT it is sticking your head in the sand to be in the presence of dramatic amounts of correlation and continue to deny the *possibility of causation without purposed research. To return to the specific topic at hand, the possibility of this class of drugs causing psychotic behavior is a documented fact. Yes it is a “side-effect” and only occurs in a “small” percentage of the people who are prescribed the drug but it does happen and the connection is far from loose. What the industry seems to be (pick your adjective: allowing, ignoring, hiding, etc) is the fact that in that percentage of cases where these drugs do not behave as advertised their behavior is severely unpredictable and in many cases disastrously so. The simple fact is there are too many doctors prescribing these drugs the way they might an antibiotic or Tylenol then sending their patients out into the world before seeing if they are the loaded gun and not the healed patient.

    On the argument of “drugs save lives so why are you being mean to drugs!” Since everyone’s throwing around analogies I’ll give a pharmaceutical one. I take Imitrex Injection for my migraines. It is an absolutely amazing drug that has saved my life in many ways. It would NOT be possible without the most modern of science. It does exactly as advertised, for me. I take it and my migraine goes away completely without druggie side-effects. That being said in a decent sized percentage of patients the result of taking Imitrex is death. Should they take Imitrex off the market because of this? I hope not! BUT because they acknowledge this potential issue doctors take care to monitor patients thoroughly when first administered so they can save a life if this person wasn’t meant for the drug. These psychotropics should be similar. They should be prescribed with more care than they are at present and most likely less often in general (different argument for a different day). The strong possibility that these people would not have perpetrated the crimes that they did had they not been on this doctor prescribed drug gives more than enough cause to closely monitor new patients to make sure they are in the beneficial group NOT the harmful group. To pretend the harmful group doesn’t exist falls somewhere between ignorant and criminally negligent.

  • Barbara

    I’m reading your list- you sure included a lot of people who weren’t mass shooters on your list of people as mass shooters. That’s not just bad journalism, though it is bad journalism- it’s intentionally misleading people.. If you took out those people who weren’t mass shooters, you’d have a lot smaller list- and you wouldn’t even have the correlation that Rich Pasco so wisely reminds you is not causation.

  • Guest

    Note the term “nearly” which gives the author the option to not include gun related shooting like the 2009 Fort Hood masacre by Malik Hasan. Ho convenient.

  • Citizen99

    Citizen99 • a few seconds ago
    Note the term “nearly” which gives the author the option to not include none drug related gun shootings like the 2009 Fort Hood massacre by Malik Hasan. How convenient.

  • Kile in murder city

    So many comments to address, so little point. Yes this article is biased. So are everyone who is up on there soapbox in these comments. These horrible acts rarely have any other factor than humans being humans. Some of us are more messed up than others. I am surprised to see that some of you think that mental illness isn’t real. I don’t even understand that thought process. Fact of the matter is that all of these mass killings and suicides and all other horrible acts have been happening since the beginning of time. Before guns or medication were ever imagined. I can’t fathom people not seeing that many of the doctors who prescribe these kinds of medications do so with the eagerness of a kid in a candy store. We all have a natural curiosity about why all types of things happen in this world and we all like to think we are right. I don’t understand why people lean on politics and science and all of these man made ideologies. Just try and have a little more of an open mind and less ego. Science for the most part is a farce. How many scientific “facts” have changed through out history? My whole point is that no one on this planet right now knows a damn thing for a fact. Guns aren’t the problem. Medications aren’t the problem. Political affiliation isn’t the problem. We are the problem. We have forgotten about God. We have forgotten humility. This world is now flooded with negativity. I believe that those things are the biggest killers in the world. As far as the question posed by this article, medication certainly could effect people in severe negative ways that could include violent behaviors. To try and say that these types of medications are the cause of those actions is ludacris. As I stated earlier, this has been going on forever. We just get to hear about it everyday thanks to the media. I pray we as a society will one day wake up to what is important. Pointing fingers is not one of those things.

  • John Kramer

    Paxil definitely made me feel depressed when I took it. Fortunately, I only took it for about 1 month and then stopped.

  • Jera

    Physicians “practice” medicine. Any questions?

  • 82nd11B

    I can already see the shark fins of litigation

  • LogicLover

    Congratulations you just proved that people crazy enough to be on psychiatric medication do crazy things. Well, that was 5 minutes of my life I won’t get back…sigh.

  • jhsif

    But if we take this SERIOUSLY there will be no more shootings?! How would the LIBERALS push their RADICAL terroristic agenda without MASS SHOTTINGS of CRAZY people?!

  • hecramsey2

    How many people take these drugs and don’t get violent, and in the absence of these drugs how many would?

  • Freda

    How many gunmen played violent electronic games before the age of 10? How many parents allowed society to be the babysitter, educator and influence? How many of these had parents who prayed together, played together, ate dinner together, and read the scriptures together? Answer these…and maybe we can get busy solving the real issue of passing out the psychotropic meds in the first place.

    • Cjr Udek

      I give up. How many? What? You don’t know either? Then your “point” is stupid.

      • Hayley Prychun Rodgers

        Actually, guns HAVE changed somewhat, and it seems less families have them, and less kids are raised with them and taught gun safety.

        We didn’t have any in my home, but a friend did, you can sure as heck bet my parents and my friend’s taught me that guns are a potentially dangerous tool, just like a power saw or butcher knife. They taught me the reality of things. I would never have pointed a gun to someone without the intention of killing them. So many kids have no clue these days, even with a gun in the home.

    • Hayley Prychun Rodgers

      “How many gunmen played violent electronic games before the age of 10?” Far less than the number of kids who played those games and NEVER HURT ANYONE. Being drawn to violent video games ( and getting too into them) are signs of potential issues, but not the cause.

  • Ranger

    They are also primarily democrats, or raised in a democrat home.

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  • Peter Brown

    I would opine that every one of the murders were done under the early ingestion of either breast milk or formula. We should immediately ban children from using that obviously dangerous substance and start them on alcohol as soon as possible. My argument makes just as much sense as the statements made in this baby doctor essay.

  • Hayley Prychun Rodgers

    As previously said, “correlation does not imply causality”. That said, I firmly believe in trying therapy, exercise, natural PROVEN remedies, and things such as that before jumping onto pharmaceuticals. Ph. are powerful and can have terrible side effects, they can certainly be worth it for the right people, but not for everyone. We should work UP to meds, not jump onto them right away.

    And I say this from a place of some experience. I have struggled with depression since my teen years, but we were always able to help control it without medication. Only recently have things become harder to control, so I am working with a therapist. I am willing to go to meds if, in the end, that seems best, but so far working with my doctor and finding my self help options (no, nothing elicit. I don’t drink, smoke or do drugs) seems to be working really well.

    • Cjr Udek

      If you haven’t already done so, see an endocrinologist and get your thyroid gland thoroughly tested.

      • Hayley Prychun Rodgers

        I have, thank you.

  • Cjr Udek

    I’m not impressed by the presence of so many single-victim stories in an article that purports to be about “Nearly Every Mass Shooting.” BTW, what the mass shootings (4 or more fatalities not counting the shooter(s) ) over the last fifty years DO have in common is that they nearly all took place in a NO GUN zone. In fact, every single one except for the Gabby Giffords shooting. It’s reasonable to conclude that this is not a coincidence. NO GUN zones protect shooters, and not the victims. What better place to initiate a mass murder?

  • shesaid

    “One need only Google” is NEVER a good prelude to presenting “evidence”. Yes, SSRIs have side effects, which are listed on the drug labels. All SSRIs are required by law to have Black Box Warnings regarding young users and a potential for increased suicidality. Unfortunately, that is a very terrible side effect. What you don’t discuss here is the fact that SSRIs = treatment for Major Depressive Disorder, which very often includes suicidal ideation in making the diagnosis. You = not a doctor. And while you are at looking at “multiple credible scientific studies” (did you Google those, too?), try looking at CURRENT relevant ones.

    • Rita Abernathy

      Current relevant ones are very much questioning these drugs. Their effects in adults is one issue, but in children is another issue.

  • Rita Abernathy

    I would add that these medications, given way too often, are far from perfect. I have seen them correct depression, but at the same time, they can erase a persons moral filter. The use of these drugs as a quick remedy instead of face to face time with mental health provider, is a sad fact in mental health today. This along with the unknown of how these drugs interact with a young, still developing brain, is a possible lethal combination.

  • Robert2

    This is so true – actually 80 school shootings and 4, 700 acts of violence involve kids going on or coming off antidepressants, and many were on vegan/vegiterian diet with no EPA/DHA omega-3s. Bad combo.

  • Critical Mass

    A well armed society is a polite society. If the object of surprise attack and lack of armed response was taken away from every suspect in the fact that they would be going against an armed resistance whether it be a teacher, a passerby, or even the parent of a co student then they would not have been so quick to plan out a mass shooting…

  • MomInAlabama

    I do medical transcription and I transcribe on numerous adolescents who are on SSRI’s and ADHD medications. Never have I transcribed on a patient that has become violent while on the medication. These patients need to be monitored closely by both their physician AND the parents. The real story that you aren’t telling is – more often than not these children that commit these crimes are from wealthier career-driven families where the parents consider money as a replacement for a lack of parental time. There is NO replacement for quality time between a parent and a child. It enables the parent to observe their child’s reactions to situations and know when there is a problem. It also enables the child to establish a closer relationship to the parent, sometimes to the point that they will open up and confide in the parent. Another thing I would like to see stastics for in your article is, how many of the students that committed a crime were victims of horrible bullying. I don’t mean every day picking on of a student – I mean horrible life-shattering (at their age) bullying that is relentless and ignored by school professionals. By the way, Jeff Franklin is listed twice in your statistics. He is listed by name and also listed as “A young man in Huntsville, Alabama.”

  • DisentAgain

    Correlation does not imply causation. There is *no* indication that medication causes this phenomenon. *untreated* mental illness is clearly the predominant factor, but we already knew that. We know lots of things… They are usually male. They are usually white. They are suicidal. They feel alienated and enraged… and most importantly they were all largely *untreated* for mental disorders at the time of the attack.

    So please stop blaming yet another data point, and start thinking about causes rather than symptoms.

    • Jonas Planck

      By “untreated,” you mean that the drugs are actually placebos that do nothing? So the drug companies are perpetrating a fraudulent hoax on consumers, then. Felony fraud, actually. Are you sure that’s the argument you want to go with? That the drugs have no effect and represent a scam to defraud the mentally ill out of billions of dollars a year? Because that actually makes the drug companies look WORSE than merely reckless or indifferent… it makes them ACCESSORIES to all those murders!

      • DisentAgain

        They were not on the drugs at the time.

        • Jonas Planck

          Ah, so the drugs DO work, but upon discontinuing usage, they trigger withdrawal symptoms that include mass murder. So they still would have been better off not taking any drugs at all.

          • DisentAgain

            Correlation does not equal causation… But please, continue jumping to conclusions.

          • Jonas Planck

            It’s interesting how correlation DOES equal causation when you’re arguing that the drugs perform their intended purpose, but NOT when attempting to determine side effects. So which is it?

          • Jonas Planck

            So there is no evidence that the drugs work AT ALL, then. There is merely correlation, which does not indicate causation.

          • DisentAgain

            Jumped to another conclusion, right there. You are making a claim with no evidence.

          • Jonas Planck

            If saying “correlation does not equal causation” Is a baseless claim with no evidence to back it up, then why are you doing it? Do you just enjoy jumping to conclusions? Where is your evidence?

          • DisentAgain

            Yes, yes… evil drug companies cause mass shootings. Got it. We heard you the first three time said it. You still have no evidence to support the claim.

            Paranoia, by the way, is also something that should be treated.

            The only claim I made is related to the lack of evidence in yours. Show me a causal relationship – and I’ll happily reverse my opinion. Calling me a lying flip-flopper because I asked you to prove your claim is not helping you make a rational case.

            Prove your claim, or call it your personal opinion – but to present personal irrational bias as fact insults the victims of these kinds of crimes, and to the rest of our intelligence.

          • Jonas Planck

            Boy you sure talk like a PR plant, don’t you? I forgive you, you probably just don’t know any better. You see, REAL people, the human kind, know when to shrug and back off, when to say, “jeez what a TOOL!” but ‘turfers don’t… they CAN’T because they have a job to do. If you ARE one, then I trust you’ll take this advice to heart and not tip your hand so quickly next time. You’re welcome. But I digress.
            If you need proof that PTSD-like symptoms, paranoia, and suicidal thoughts or actions are listed side effects, side effects that they are required by law to disclose, a good place to start would be the websites for the drugs themselves, put there by the drug companies who make them. These sites all link to a list of those effects. Either these ARE real side effects, or the drug companies are lying about it for no discernible reason whatsoever. You see, this is not a thing that is contested by anyone. Except you, and your counterparts here.
            So when I mocked you for the internal inconsistency of your own argument, and pointed out that it’s a lose-lose scenario to leap to the company’s defense, I figured there had to be some reason your jimmies got rustled. Surely you don’t take it THAT personally, do you? Indeed, why WOULD you be so emotionally invested in public opinion regarding a pharmaceutical company’s market share? So much that you have to straw-man me out like that, and say I said something which I didn’t actually say? I was just taking the premise and running with it, like I always do. Do you know what an IDEA is? It’s a lot like a belief, except you don’t have to actually believe in it to think it. You should look into that, it’s very liberating. You’d be surprised at the things your mind can accomplish when it isn’t bound by an emotionally unstable need to believe everything it thinks. Also, you might want to look up sarcasm, you’re going to have a hard time understanding the internet until you discover what that is.

          • DisentAgain

            Ah yes. Now I’m an astro-turfer. My “jimmies are rustled” by spurious correlation and conspiracy theory passed off as fact, regardless of topic. The only thing that motivates me here is your crazy opinion. I’m not defending pharma, I’m not denying side effects. I’m simply asking you to provide evidence – or shut up.

            How many of these shooters were on medication? How many had stopped taking it? Which medications, and what classes of medicine, in what doses? When did they stop? How many were untreated altogether? How many were suicidal before taking the medication? How many after? What’s the expected rate of suicidal/homicidal urges as side effects? How many other types of these cases result in murder? Do we see an increase in stabbings? assaults? Just firearms? Any of these vectors might provide us with the connection you keep making. But you are not doing that work. You are jumping to a conclusion.

            We have no evidence to point to any treatment causing mass shootings, because there is no common thread in the treatment the shooters receive (except potentially the *lack* of treatment, which you ignore). Those that were on medication were not even on the same class of medication… and there is nothing to suggest most were even on medication at all.

            We *do* have common threads to investigate… but you seem convinced we should stop looking for causes. That’s reckless, and frankly, stupid.

            You are making a connection where not exists, and then claiming conspiracy and cover up. That’s not presenting evidence, or proving your point.

          • Jonas Planck

            You said they were not on the drugs, then you ask me if they were or weren’t? I explain to you that my statements are not opinion, but sarcastic extrapolation from the premise, and then you tell me to justify the opinion I JUST TOLD YOU that I don’t hold? You refuse to consider possible causes, then tell me that I’M refusing to consider possible causes? You deny the evidence that they were even ON any meds to begin with? Look, pal, I’m not going to fund a ten-year study just because YOU don’t know how to use a search engine. Whatever the hell is wrong with you clearly goes a lot deeper than mere pathological lying, and I don’t think a regimen of serotonin inhibitors is going to help you very much, regardless of whether or not they have debilitating side effects. Whatever happened to your brain appears to be self-inflicted. It’s causing you to forget your own words, and misinterpret everything you read. Until you can learn how to control it, you might want to stay away from comment threads, because you obviously don’t have the spine to cope with them or the intellectual capacity to keep up with them.

          • DisentAgain

            Calm down, little one. That conversation in your head is clearly more entertaining than the actual conversation we are having.

            So your conclusion jumping, insane ramblings, paranoid conspiracy, and irrational assignations of my motivation were sarcasm? Ok. I’ll take it. You concede that you have no argument, I accept your concession. Now move along.

          • Jonas Planck

            Yep, I was right. You’re crazier than a soup sandwich, and half as sentient. Oh well, at least I tried. Not everybody is capable of understanding written words, as you plainly demonstrate.

  • Barry Shanley

    Hahahaha…Nice try. ALL shooting deaths….involved guns. The NRA-induced gun-toting culture is much more to blame. Universal background checks on each and every gun sold and the banning of military-style weapons and multi-bullet magazines will go much further than the mental-illness aspect. The problem is obviousl 400 million people. 300 million guns. People are human and get uncontrollably angry from time to time… With a gun at everyone’s fingertips…it’s human nature.

    • Mark Anderson

      Yeah all shooting deaths involve guns. I don’t see how a knife can be used to shoot someone! By the way, people kill people. Oh look I’ve had a gun by my side for the last 3 hours. It still hasn’t shot me. Hmmm?

    • justathought22

      how about instead of touting stupid info you come up with a plan to get the guns away from the criminals? no, just law abiding citizens? then you are just a tool.

  • Sidestep

    I take 20mg of SSRI’s a day and I have never felt the urge to kill my fellow man; or lead a cult.

  • Mark Anderson

    Psychotropic medications are one big mass experiment!

  • mcb0b

    It’s unrealistic to expect medications used to treat people with the most severe mental illnesses to be one hundred percent effective one hundred percent of the time on one hundred percent of people taking them. People with severe mental illness tend to do insane things by the very nature of their affliction, so it’s ridiculous to blame the medication when they do something terrible despite it.

    Keep in mind also that there are over 7 billion people and for better or worse, thanks to modern communications, we now learn instantly whenever any single one of them commits a particularly heinous act anywhere at all on this whole planet. It’s a matter of perspective.

    • Jonas Planck

      So the drugs don’t work, then. Perhaps the drug companies could funnel some of those massive profits they made selling expensive placebos to crazy people into discovering an anti-psychotic medication that DOES work!

      • mcb0b

        Your insistence that anything short of 100% success at all times with all patients represents failure is a bit strange, but be assured drug companies are still very actively working on newer and better products to address any shortcomings that have been noted with current offerings.

        • Jonas Planck

          Yes, and they seem quite active in promoting P.R. as well…

  • A.B.

    I find it peculiar that the title of this article states that these events have one thing in common, that the said similarity isn’t weapons, and then not only does it proceed to provide a list of events wherein weapons were used, but it also lists the weapons used in those murders. Strange strategy.

  • Jonas Planck

    …some side effects may include homicidal thoughts or actions. Ask your doctor, who gets paid a commission to prescribe them to you.

  • tkm

    This is garbage, there are many suicides and one victim murders on this list, the title says “mass shooting”. How can you say ssri’s cause mass shootings if not every mass shooter was on them (ritilian isnt an ssri) and not every person on an ssri goes out and causes a mass shooting?

  • Constitutionalrighttoshoot!

    And they were all American. And guns are as easy to get in America as knives are in a civilised country.

  • Dirockson

    and Adam Lanza was put on a bi polar drug which was new and is L name and his depression got worse .I just feel that the drugs used may be not helping certain brain types everyone’s brain chemistry is different it isn’t just genetics parents are not warned about side effects or how to monitor their child or adult child . Taking these drugs are playing russian rulelette and there needs to be education for parents and they just can’t put a kid on meds and trust that
    it is going to work for that individual. The meds need to be monitored . Are we looking at a sleep disorder that is not being treated right . As so many of these kids parents report that the teens did not sleep well…but we trust that a drug won’t have harmful side effects but not all drugs have been tested on all groups of individuals and doctors prescribe them as a cocktail or not for the intended targeted group. Most of the schools won’t accept a child who is hyperactive , or who seams out of sorts and the issue is put that child on drugs , starting with adhd meds and then move to all the other meds . Some dull personality and just don’t seam right and yet a parent knows this isn’t working and doctors are reluctant to here what parents input are as the kids grow up and their brains grow so what is the out come are we just using these kids as test cases…when they go wrong we say they were psychopathic
    in need of better care … more options and the laws that prevent parents but protect the right of the individual there isn’t the care to see how to save or treat the problem of the brain. If it was cancer we
    would find a cure…but this is Mental illness ….do we cure or imprison our mentally ill? Do we fine a way meds have been the answer….but it just isn’t putting a band-aid or using outdated method. Still in the dark ages where the Brain is concerned . This list shows time to change .

  • whatareuthinking

    Another common element is they are mostly males. What’s the significance of that?

  • Samantha

    Anti depressants make me suicidal..either I fantasize about it(it even feels sexual, my drowning myself does) or the last time I $$$ on my third dose when I tried to kill myself on front of my kid…the hideously scary thing about it for me is I’m NOT suicidal at all ever…except on anti depressants….NEVER again…I take 5htp and an doing cognitive restructuring so I can mediate and daily adorn my way out of these depressions…cuz offing myself or possibly hurting others is not a solution I will try again…

  • Ashlea Kelly

    I have personally taken at least 4 of the medications and I took my self off because the way it made me feel I didn’t and still don’t like any kind of medicine that changes your mood and feelings

  • Pingback: School Shootings Usually Involve Doctor Prescribed SSRI “Anti-Depressant” Drugs–duh, maybe it’s the SSRI drugs? | Dregs of the Future()

  • Manda Pants

    ITT: lots of people who know nothing about chemistry or biology.

  • deanmc

    As a human being, being put on Ritalin as a child, I was a zombie, a good zombie…….a zombie that didn’t disrupt class because I was bored and more intelligent for the grade I was in. My mom took me off because of the talk of suicides with Ritalin users…..that was in the ’70’s.
    As a smoker trying to quit, the doctor prescribed Wellbutrin…..I took myself off of it, I would go into rages, I really felt like I could hurt someone. Not all drugs have the same effects on individuals, have they even done research on drugs between the different blood types (positive & negative). The bloods are different, there could be different reactions.

    • Jim

      Come on, we can’t use common sense in the presence of scientist.

      • deanmc

        I could hope to turn on that “idea” bulb……it’s worth a shot.

  • Mike

    This is incredibly misleading. Millions of Americans’ lives are made better by these medications when properly prescribed and used. Violent actions are more indicative of the underlying neurological disorder than the drugs used to treat them. As someone who started taking Ritalin in my early teen years, I can attest that the drug made my life safer and more rewarding. My mind has since been more at-peace and focused and every aspect of my life has improved: Socially, creatively, productively, etc. To draw a strict correlation between these drugs and violent behavior is far too simplistic and we need not fall for this.

  • Ryan Fisher

    Umm…here’s a thought…all of these people were prescribed these drugs because they were bat shit crazy thus shooting mass groups of people. When you lock up a completely sane person in a controlled environment, feed them prozac and zoloft, and they begin to eat white bunnies alive you’ll have my attention. Until then let’s change the title of this article to: “Surprisingly, all mass shooters are on psychotropic drugs because they’re psychos…go figure”.

    • Jim

      “Woody, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.”

      What was that you were saying? This is just a small sample of the incidents in this article.

      • Roy R

        Sounds like a Doctor problem.

        • Jim

          Do you know who schools the doctors on new drugs? Pharmaceutical reps! Educate yourself. Do you know who does the clinical trials? The Pharmaceutical companies. G.S.K. has been caught and convicted of cooking trials on drugs and the company had felony charges (and convictions) for that and bribing FDA officials and hiring 50k doctors to push them…illegally I might add. And guess what, nobody went to jail and nobody received probation.

          Don’t come to a debate with me when you are unarmed, it’s not a wise strategy.

          • Roy R

            One time, a kid choked on a stalk of celery. Lets ban celery for all because it could kill them. Who are you to say that the drugs didn’t STOP many more killings in the last 20 years? You don’t know that smart guy.

            And I didn’t come to a debate. I commented that maybe the doctor prescribed something he shouldn’t have. Big Jim. Smart guy. Maybe we should blame the violence on MENTAL ILLNESS, not the drugs or the guns or the knives. Many more people have been helped with these drugs than have been hurt ( thousands to one ). But of course, you must know that seeing how educated you are.

            I’d add that maybe your big giant educated ego should go on some prescription medicine yourself.

          • Jim

            I have common sense and wisdom and that has always outweighed nitwits like you anyway. Nobody said a thing about celery, but these drugs have been a part of tens of thousands of deaths. Show me the data on celery. I can show you the data on these drugs, but you would not read it. Hell, you can read it on the FDA website but you will not. you know why you won’t” Because you are a dishonest skeptic. An honest one would at least look at it.

            Now let’s look at the comment about mental illness (in childish caps I might add).

            1. 250 million prescriptions for anti-depressants were written in 2010. There are only 350 million people in the US.

            2. One in Five adults take prescription psychiatric drugs here in the US.

            3. 10 per cent of high school pupils are prescribed drugs for ADHD.

            So, right at 1 out of 3 have mental illness? Only a moron like you would believe that. By the way, how many live in your home?

            Like I said, don’t come to debate when you have absolutely nothing of substance to share.

            I gave you information to look up but have you? no, again, a dishonest person.

            Go do some research on “Disorders” vs “Disease” vs “Syndromes” and you will see that one of the three requires no scientific proof (Hint: Disorders are not scientifically proven). This means you speak about you know not what.

            The drugs in question are made from Fluoride, go read your toothpaste tube, What does it say on the tube? it’s a neurotoxin!

            Drugs prescribed have nothing to do with guns. People trust doctors and follow their advice, some under court orders outside of a doctors care have been ordered to take the drugs for bi-polar, which is a “Disorder” (means it can’t be scientifically proven).

            When 10, 20, 30 k die from celery, come talk to me. When a doctor prescribes a gunshot to the head, come talk to me, when you start using your brain, come talk to me.

            It’s morons and gun supporters like you that make the rest of us look bad.

      • Ryan Fisher

        No that’s a small sample of just 2 incidents that suggest there were no psychotic behaviors from this article. The other one was Wellbutrin for gallstones. The most polite way to put this to you is to stop using outside excuses for inside behaviors. It’s extremely convenient that almost all of these mass murderers were prescribed some sort of anti-psychotic for being psychotic yet it’s the drug that made them kill.

        • Jim

          They are playing with the chemical makeup of the brain.

          Maybe you should take some time to research before making such a statement. It’s not just two, it’s thousands and thousands and thousands, if the truth were know, probably millions.

          Do you know what Chantix is? It’s a MAOI uptake inhibitor that they decided to use on smokers to help them quit. Hundreds and thousands of people killing their selves and others in usually less than 3 weeks from the time they started the process. It now carries a black box warning.

          So, I asked my doctor about it, he stated with no hesitation, “Only 1 out of 200 have these results which is acceptable levels.”

          Are you kidding me? 1 out of 200 tried to off themselves and/or others? See, it’s the people like you that think they are educated, but in reality, they are completely stupid.

          You’re not finding solutions to problems, you’re creating them. There is heavy corruption within the medical establishment, lobbied heavily by major pharmaceutical companies and their heavily funded special interest groups.

          The name of the game is profit…not health or human life.

          • Ryan Fisher

            Yes and they’re still conducting research on
            Chantix to determine whether or not it’s an extreme nicotine withdrawal or the
            drug itself. The black box warning is to cover their asses until thorough
            research proves whether or not the drug does cause suicidal behavior. And
            you’re incorrect, 1 out of 200 did not try to off themselves or others, they
            “experienced” suicidal IDEAS and occasionally behavior. If 1 out of
            200 people using any substance ACTUALLY tried to kill themselves or others this
            would be a different story. You’re merely speculating the causation of an
            action based on a common factor in a few of the cases. If someone commits a
            mass murder and isn’t on any psychotropic then what’s to blame? The fact that
            he ate cheerios the morning prior? The true common factor in almost all of
            these cases is that they were prescribed meds for a reason…psychotic behavior
            and thoughts…the kids of behavior and thoughts that fuel a mass murder or a

  • bennyboy420

    One other thing, none of them were active cannabis users. Some (few, actually) had a cannabis past but stopped using and replaced cannabis therapy with DRUGS.

  • Robert

    Maybe they were all on meds cause they are some fucked up people. They were all human too….

  • Amy

    Why why why why WHY is this article focusing on medication and not MENTAL ILLNESS?!? Yes, there’s a common link and it’s not weapons – it’s not drugs either, it’s MENTAL ILLNESS. Our system fails people every day, but it fails every one of us every time there is a mass shooting or tragedy. We need to increase awareness and fund mental health services if we want to see change.

  • Roy R

    Could it be that the offenders were all mentally unstable already? The reason they were on the drugs in the first place ?

    My guess is that there are literally millions of people on these drugs that do not harm themselves or others. Its like saying every child molester has eaten carrots sometime in their life before he committed his crime.

    A Doctor recognized a serious mental illness and the only thing he/she could do, was write a prescription. That is about the most anybody can do.

  • judge_d

    I’ll bet they all also ate bread, drank products with milk in, sat close to TVs, used mobile phones, had sunlight on their uncovered skin, watched adverts etc. So the same implication can be made about many thousands of things.

  • Judith

    I have a hard time believing that it was the anti-depressants alone, that led these people to do such atrocious acts… Especially so soon after beginning treatment. I know it takes up to 6 weeks for SSRI’s to fully cause an effect on the patient.. But what do I know.

  • Aaron Thomas

    These people were all experiencing acute difficulties in their life which caused them to seek treatment. Many of these individuals had not been on their ssri long enough for it to be effective so they were still depressed. The people on stimulants may have become addicted and were taking a very high dose which makes someone very erratic and irritable. In any case, many people in this world will experience troubles in their life severe enough to warrant a psychiatric diagnosis and medication. During these times they may be more prone to irrational even dangerous behavior. I would not blame the medication. These people probably sought out a psychiatrist when their symptoms were at the very worst so the correlation between beginning a medication regimen and irrational behavior does not prove that the medication caused the behavior. More likely their acute problems caused it. Also, sometimes doctors misdiagnose and the person may have had a different problem that continued to grow in intensity going untreated by the SSRI.

  • Morgan Bradshaw

    I do not care what people might argue to justify this article. Obviously I am no neuroscientist, however, I believe that mental illness or personality disorders should not be treated with narcotics. It does not make sense to treat an unstable brain with mind-altering medication. Learning to understand, accept and live with a “disorder” makes more sense than covering it up. This type of mediation is a bandaid and once that bandaid falls off, the side effects have proven self-inflicted harm

  • Morgan Bradshaw

    I do not care what people might argue to justify this article. Obviously I am no neuroscientist, however, I believe that mental illness or personality disorders should not be treated with narcotics. It does not make sense to treat an unstable brain with mind-altering medication. Learning to understand, accept and live with a “disorder” makes more sense than covering it up. This type of mediation is a bandaid and once that bandaid falls off, the side effects have proven self-inflicted harm

    • BethRFinch

      Often, the drugs bring the brain chemistry back to normal. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, please read up.

  • aleXander hirka

    Most acts of violence are committed by people who are not being treated.

  • aleXander hirka

    Most acts of violence are committed by people who are not being treated.

  • Jamila

    1) SSRI drugs have black box warnings about the increased risk of suicidal thoughts and tendencies in teens and young adults. 2) Aspirin would in no way be a controlled substance if it were discovered now and it does not have more side effects than “most drugs”. 3)The link here seems to be that these were incredibly troubled children, this is in no way a cause and effect, case closed. And 4)Most pharmaceuticals are synthesized from natural sources. I don’t know where people think they come from.

  • Carrye

    I was prescribed welbutrin when I was trying to quit smoking. I’ve done it cold turkey before with out being the stereotypical angry non smoker but doc suggested I try it. I had to stop taking it because I would snap for no reason scaring even myself it was straight rage. I stopped it went away I tell anyone to steer clear of the stuff

    • Jill

      Wellbutrin is not an SSRI. And I’m not sure you were appropriately prescribed the drug. Particularly if you had anxiety instead of depression.

  • Billy P.

    Doctors get kick backs from drug companies for prescribing this garbage to kids and young adults. More money,more vacations, it’s garbage.
    Don’t medicate your kids with compounds that are known to suicidal thoughts. We may look back at this era in history with great shame for the medical profession. Drug companies and doctors take an oath to ” do no harm”. I know some modern medicines are good, before the invention of modern painkillers the #1 cause of suicide was tooth ache.
    Now the greatest cause of suicide is modern medicine. How can that be?
    Doctors who really want to help people are what we need. Doctors who want to get rich by prescribing pills should be tarred and feathered.

    • BethRFinch

      Toothache caused suicides in the past???? I want to see your sources.

  • charlie d

    w their reasoning is… it’s the same as people who simply say the gun
    is the only problem. meanwhile there are millions on meds that do not
    shoot or injure anyone. So .. saying the med is the common denominator
    is superficial. A deeper complication might be the problem w/ mental
    health in general rather than the ones who take meds. In fact, in many
    cases, people who use antidepressants or anti-bipolar meds are more
    likely to do something dangerous 9usually to themselves) when they go
    off their medications.

  • KalinRheanne

    Please share your sources

  • Marsha RN

    Ritalin is not an SSRI. It is basically speed.
    The kid who hung himself after 6 days was probably still seriously depressed as it takes 21 days to get to a therapeutic dose.
    Before people start blaming it on very useful medications that help thousand of people have functioning lives you need to look at each case separately.
    Abruptly stopping these meds or irregularly taking them can also cause severe withdrawal symptoms. They have to be tapered off of with medical supervision.
    There are thousands and thousands of people who’s lives are so improved by these meds don’t judge until you know all the facts of each case.
    Not just the general facts but all the details.
    People can mess up their lives and the lives of others by mishandling many kinds of prescription medications.

  • ಠ_ಠ Roger X

    Any statistical comparison of violent crime and drug usage, versus drug usage in the general population? Any causational analysis, or just just correlational innuendo? Nope.

    It’s not the guns, it’s not the drugs either. It’s a very small number of broken people. If you can sum up 20 years of violent outbursts from you people in a population of 350 million on a single page, I’d submit our situation’s not nearly as bad as people believe it is thanks to the scare-culture media.

    I believe I’m supposed to sign off with something like “Wake up, sheeple!” right?

  • John Clark

    Very simply put — many took medication for the condition(s) that led to violence, so it’s not so cut and dry.

  • jay

    The problem with all of this is that we have replaced discipline with medication. Everyone these days wants to blame bad behavior on some sort of mental disorder, and rather than disciplining, they just medicate their children because it’s easier

  • Gary Czernick

    All I have too say is, since i dont take these drugs no more my imagination has returned, the desire too jump off bridges has left me, and I dont think about punching out everybody I walk by any more so, in your face big pharma!

    • BethRFinch

      Good for you. You were probably on the wrong meds. But don’t knock them for everyone. They work beautifully for me.

  • Charity Rathbun

    All of those people were MENTALLY ILL! THAT is the correlation between the incidents, not the drugs.

  • Charity Rathbun

    I have a mentally ill child, and she has been on scads of psychiatric drugs for 7 years. She hasn’t tried to hurt herself, or anyone else since starting a medication regimen. Her symptoms are well controlled, and she doesn’t live in a snowed over lethargic fog. She is very high functioning, and is a positive productive member of society. There are unresolved, underlying issues, and usually severe mental disorders in common with a good majority, if not all of these incidents being used as examples.

  • clkottke

    Just because these people were taking these drugs does not mean it was the drugs. It could have been their mental state that they were being treated for. Plus, for example, Zoloft is not recommended for anyone under the age of 17 or 18 and most if not all were under the age of 18. There there a lot of factors that are not being taken into account in this article. You cannot take one aspect and say, “This was the cause.” There are multiple influences and factors that are involved.

  • Mike

    Psychiatric drugs were created to treat people with severe mental problems. Nowadays, doctors prescribe them to any kid who can’t sit still for a few minutes. People with these problems used to get around the clock care. Was it the best system? Hardly, with a lot of abuses. But expecting a pill to do the work of the doctors for them is naive, foolish, and as we’ve seen time and time again, dangerous.

  • teacher

    As a teacher, I can tell you that the medicine is not what is causing these events. Why would a doctor simply put a child on these medicines? It is due to a pattern of behavior. The behavior is learned. The bottom of the line answer is that parents are not teaching students that actions have consequences. “He’s just being a boy.” “I can’t do anything with him, you deal with it yourself at school.” “I’ll talk to him.” “She says you pick on her.” “Maybe you are just racist.” These are things parents have said to me over the years, defending their child’s behavior. STOP DEFENDING AND EXCUSING THEM! These kids get everything they demand….always. Parents are not in charge, these kids are. If the parents would start from the BEGINNING and let their children hear no and get consequences, these events would be fewer in number.

  • Sam

    Some of these could not be caused by the meds. Most of these med take weeks to affect a person.

    • BethRFinch

      Or even 4-6 weeks…

  • brendanXIII

    I would say that the drugs themselves are less likely to have been the cause of these incidents than the REASON they’re taking the drugs in the first place. People who commit such acts of atrocity tend to be mentally ill — and people who have mental illnesses tend to be taking medication for those illnesses.

  • mdbill


    • mdbill

      Brendanxiii is exactly correct. I love these MMR causes autism type articles presented like theyve been researched by professionals

  • Psych major

    Either the author of this article never took an introductory psychology class or he is intentionally trying to mislead readers. As students learn in Psych 101, correlation does not imply causation. The drugs didn’t necessarily cause the shootings. More than likely, something caused both outcomes (the fact that all the people listed were mentally ill).

    • BethRFinch

      Amen! Here’s a person who THINKS!

  • BethRFinch

    Hmmm… maybe they were taking the medications because they had mental issues in the first place! SSRIs do not build up in the system very quickly. So saying that someone killed people six days after starting SSRIs is bogus. It takes about 4-6 weeks for this class of drugs to have any measurable effect. Now, whether teenagers should take them is another issue. Some drugs should not be taken by teenagers or young children because they are metabolized differently.

    But don’t knock the kinds of drugs that can make a huge improvement in some people’s lives. I’m on SSRIs myself, and I have depended on them for more than 20 years to help me control panic attacks and anxiety. They have made my life so much better that I would never think of going without them.

  • Geralt_Z_Rivii

    What about all the serial killers and mass murderers who committed their crimes before these drugs were even invented?

  • AmericanIcon

    Not to belabor the obvious, but there is one more commonality: With at most two exceptions, they all took place in ‘designated victim zones’ (also known as ‘gun free’ zones), where self-defense was criminalized.

  • Laila

    This article is so horrible. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that ALL MEDS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS. but if you think FOR 1 SECOND that these drugs do not help COUNTLESS of people live a normal and happier life, then I am so sorry for your ignorance. PLEASE PEOPLE DO YOUR RESEARCH. This isn’t giving mental healthcare a good rep, it already needs all the help it can get!!! These people were going to harm themselves or others if they had taken the meds or if they had not taken the meds, maybe the meds just made them do it sooner. People with mental illness PROBABLY take meds!! Doesn’t mean your average joe who takes Zoloft cause he’s depressed is gona go a shooting spree all of a sudden!!

    To try to say that these meds made these people into killers is HORRIBLE. CLARIFY WHAT YOU POST BEFORE YOU POST IT. I’m offended to say the least. I have my degree in psychology and am currently in nursing school and aspire to be a psychiatric NP. I know what I’m talking about. Again DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE.

    And BTW, Zoloft, Prozac and SSRI’s are IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM “POWERFUL ANTI PSYCHOTIC DRUGS”. This article was obviously written by someone who knew NOTHING ABOUT PSYCHIATRY.


  • writer 890

    Many interesting points are raised in the discussion of this article, but most of you are missing the point. Notice where this article comes from: This is somebody trying to argue that drugs caused these killings in order to distract from the fact that gun control could have saved many of the lives that were lost. Obviously this is also a post hoc fallacy, like saying that all of these killers ate a hamburger during the week previous to the killings, and therefore ground beef is the real culprit! Ridiculous.

  • henrybowman

    “Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!)…”

    Though I am sympathetic to your thesis, statements such as the above betray unfortunate ignorance. Starting doses are often minuscule to the point of being ineffective, simply to ensure that a patient’s body chemistry doesn’t have a major adverse reaction to the drug before raising the dosage to a generally effective level.

  • Emma Heath

    buuuut for some people these meds are what keeps them from killing themselves *shrugs* just saying

  • Mark

    Even if “nearly every” mass shooting involved SSRIs (which this article doesn’t prove, just cites a bunch of examples; anecdotal evidence is not statistical evidence and, as Rich Pasco points out, correlation in any event does not prove causality), it is beyond doubt that *every* mass shooting has involved guns. If your country is drenched with guns, as the US is, it is also far, far more likely that mass killings will occur. Here in the UK, where automatic weapons were banned after a mass shooting in the 1980s and handguns banned after a school shooting in the 1990s, the number of shootings has been microscopic compared with the US and there have been no school shootings whatsoever. Hmm, funny that. And yet SSRIs are regularly prescribed over here. And axes, knives, lawnmowers, powerdrills and all manner of potentially lethal weapons are to hand. But no guns. So no mass killings. There’s correlation and causality for you.

    • I’m A Ninja

      it is every mass shooting except one. it is easy to look that up.

      how is your violent crime compared to, say Texas?

      if you want some correlation and causality, how about this one:
      British subjects are bred and conditioned to remain subservient, unlike Americans, so Brits are less likely to cause a fuss over losing basic liberties.

      I guess I’m racist now..

  • Stopthemadness.

    You cannot deny the evidence.

  • sourjacks

    I’d like to know all of the dosages though

  • JustMe

    My 82 year old father was on antidepressants when he jumped in front of a train and ended his life.

  • Laila

    CONSIDER THE SOURCE PEOPLE. This was written by someone who is PRO GUN. Put two and two together, this article is COMPLETE BS. CORRELATION DOES NOT PROVE CAUSATION, look that up if you don’t know what it means.

    • I’m A Ninja

      yet, when the government says less guns equals less crime, with zero evidence for, and mounds of it against, you trust them wholeheartedly?

      believing that professional liars (politicians) are telling the truth is one of the definitions of insanity.

      • Vanadise

        I trust real-world examples, not politicians. Look at Japan, for example, where it’s extremely difficult for a private individual to own a gun, and crime rates are incredibly low compared to the USA.

        • I’m A Ninja

          Japan is a great example…

          ..of a broken people.

          They have no 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th Amendments, and are basically slaves of the state, and/or their employer.

          Their legal system is even more corrupt than the US’s has become.

          They have knife massacres, instead of gun massacres, but none of those, unlike the mass shootings in the US, have close ties to alphabet soup government agencies, and/or dubious chains of evidence.

          In Japan, if you try to injure someone and end up accidentally killing them, that isn’t homicide. In the US, it is. So, the numbers are skewed.

          They have double the suicide rate of the US, even though US combat veterans are taking their lives at record numbers due to deliberate failure of the government to support the troops, and having them forced into multiple tours in illegitimate undeclared and immoral wars.

          • Vanadise

            Of course they don’t have the same enumerated amendments, they aren’t governed by the US constitution. Nonetheless, their constitution grants them a very similar set of rights to what the US’s constitution does. If you’re trying to play the game of “which country is worse” you could also point out the USA’s domestic spying program, poverty and illiteracy rates, terrible health care, and life expectancy rates compared to other 1st-world countries, and so on. Suggesting that a “knife massacre” is even in the same league as a mass shooting is laughable.

            But the subject at hand is gun ownership vs. mass shooting rates, so stop trying to shift the goalposts.

          • I’m A Ninja

            Not saying the US doesn’t suck now. It used to be a good place, but it’s being slowly strangled by the criminal takeover of 1913.

            If you want real world examples, compare apples to apples, and not oranges.
            Chicago or DC vs any area of unrestricted concealed carry. Compare the crime rates of those areas and get back to me.

            And in Japan, police can search your bag anytime they feel like it.
            There’s no such thing as an illegal search, and there are rarely any trials.
            When there is a trial, there is no jury of their peers.

            So, no, they don’t have a similar set of rights as we have.. had, since they’re being stripped away day by day because no one cares about anything but who’s on American Idol, how their sports team is doing, and that false sense of security you get from letting criminals run your life, because it’s “for the children..”.

  • JustMe

    My 83 year old father was on antideppressents when he threw himself in front of a train. I agree with this article.

  • Dom

    Well to be honest a lot of antidepressants state as a warning that “mood swings, episodes, possible hallucinations, and suicide” are possible but for another commenter I read sociopaths simply don’t care, they are perfectionists with everything they do and if you can’t keep up they ignore your existence but the most important thing to them is personal progression. Sociopath has been thrown at so many things in the more recent years but they aren’t all truly correct.
    Ps I am a sociopath

    • Jonas Planck

      Somehow I doubt that. Sociopaths rarely admit to their condition freely. It doesn’t help them gain the trust they need to exploit. It’s kind of hard to stab someone in the back if they know better than to turn their back on you, isn’t it?

  • Jim

    Disturbed people commit mass shootings. Big surprise. The problem is not that these people have been treated or are being treated for being disturbed. The problem is that they had access to weapons despite having received treatment for psychiatric disorders. Blame the medication, and ban the use of psychiatric medications, and watch the chaos that ensues as the millions who benefit from them deteriorate. Blame access to weapons, and ban their use by people with psychiatric histories, and you’ll see these sorts of incidents reduced.

    • joy

      So are you saying that all PRESSURE COOKERS need to be removed from the shelves. Where there is a will there is a way. DID EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT THE RESULTS OF PROHIBITION. THE NO NO’S ALWAYS BECOME MORE PALATABLE, OH YEAH AND A GIGANTIC AVENUE OF MONEY MAKING AND MOR CRIME. It always easy to blame an object than the moral corrosion of a whole society.

    • I’m A Ninja

      tell that to England. Ask how they’re enjoying the rise in violent crime since no one can shoot back.

      Hell, ask Chicago and DC how they’re enjoying their gun bans.

      It’s not even more guns = less crime, it’s more concealed carry = less crime.
      look it up.

  • Jim

    On the other hand, maybe we should ban guns and psychotropic drugs.

  • Liz

    There is abundant evidence these meds are ineffective and unsafe. Read Anatomy of an Epidemic as a start. It is shocking….

  • Richard Sandoz

    I am guessing these meds just masked their behavior when many of these people should have been institutionalized to begin with.

  • j

    Tons of people take medication and never commit acts of violence or suicide. Saying the drugs “caused” their behavior is ridiculous. It is proof they were troubled and had sought help previously.

  • Ashley

    I usually don’t post my opinion but I feel strongly about this. I am a young women who suffers from depression and anxiety and after tried different types of SSRI’s since about 17. Nothing truly worked to help me until Prozac. I can honestly say that it changed my life for the better from serious depression and terrible panic attacks. I am also NOT for the promotion of using prescriptions frivolously AT ALL. I tried many techniques to help my anxiety but I had to come to grips that I had a chemical imbalance, and it turned out true because I am so much better.
    These were all KIDS. There is clear indication of suicidal behavior in “teens and young adults” first and foremost. They were far beyond mentally ill that SSRI’s were not the answer for them at all. They seemed to be sociopaths, anti-social’s, and dissociative. Sure the medications may have stirred something inside but they were ticking time-bombs, let’s just be real.
    This article made me feel alienated because some people out there really do need these medications and I am sure as hell not about to kill anyone or myself; I’m doing great.

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  • Juniper Bartlett

    What is the source of this claim?

  • Lisa Gaudette

    Clearly they were put on these meds to treat their mental illness! It should come as no surprise that they all have psychotropics in their system. That would be like saying nearly every person who died of asthma had corticosteroids in their system!

  • sarah

    All mass shootings have one thing in common, they are all men!

  • justmamajoan

    These shooters were on psychotropic drugs because they were mentally ill. The drugs didn’t cause them to be mentally ill in the first place. I think if you were able to check hospital records of persons who died of heart disease, pneumonia, various forms of cancer or severe liver or kidney disease they will all be found to be taking many medications. Are we to blame the medications for their deaths? No reasonable person would. Those shooters had to be mentally ill and there are many people who suffer from depression, paranoia and other types of mental illness who are greatly benefitted from psychotropic medications and never kill or shoot anyone. Please be careful when blaming medication for these terrible acts by persons who were obviously so mentally ill. Not every person who is treated for cancer is cured. Do we blame the medication for their death? The chemotherapy drugs used to cure a young person of one type if cancer many times places them at greater risk of developing leukemia or lymphoma later in life. Do we allow them to die as a child or teenager to decrease their risk of developing another cancer later in life?

    • I’m A Ninja

      but how many were misdiagnosed, over-medicated, or not properly treated for their mental issues? with all the medical mistakes killing people out there, maybe mass shooting victims should just be added to the medical mistakes category.

      Oh, and chemo killed my step-dad’s mom. She was responding well to the first round, and the doc said “well, let’s hit you with another round” followed by “oops”. She told the family on her deathbed to to just let it go and not pursue legal action. Whatever, people die, it happens to us all eventually.

      • justmamajoan

        I am so sorry for your family’s loss. I don’t have enough information to know if the doctor was following a recognized protocol. Would your stepdads mom have died from the cancer if not treated? We have no guarantees and sometimes treatments fail or cause death from complications. You are right on track when you said all people eventually die. In medical/health care we all have as our ideal that every person will respond positively and without complications, but we have no guarantees.
        Sometimes there is a fine line between treating appropriately and overmedicating. I, as I stated in my post, wish no one ever became physically or mentally ill again. I would be thrilled to find another profession. But, we live in an imperfect world and until I have to retire I will continue to do my best to correctly diagnose and treat every patient that comes my way.

    • Lynn

      I attempted suicide after starting Zoloft. Yes I was depressed beforehand–but it was the zoloft that pushed me over the edge. It completely changed my mental state. I know anecdotes aren’t data, but having worked eight years now in the mental health system myself, I can tell you there ARE a number of anecdotes, not just mine. Correlation doesn’t equal causation, very true. Why then do people assume the correlation of mental illness with the shootings is the cause? If you’re going to question correlation, you have to question ALL correlations, including mental illness… it should not be a foregone conclusion it’s the MI itself responsible.

      Violence is complex. Homicidal rampages especially so. It’s likely a combination of factors. I’m not saying it’s solely drugs. But to dismiss out of hand that drugs might play a role in some cases and assume some other cause–even MI–is patently UNscientific.

      • justmamajoan

        Lynn I am so sorry that you had such a bad experience with Zoloft. When starting any depressed person on an antidepressant it is a vital part of the standard of care to follow up within one week and to warn patients that if they get worse instead of better to call or be seen immediately. Sometimes depressed persons when they respond a little then have the energy to act on their suicidal thoughts. I’m always very careful to ask eye to eye questions about the history of suicidal thoughts and any plans and then monitor response closely. There has to be an unbearable hopelessness to push a person to the point of suicidality.
        I think the point of the original story about mass murders was that the medications were the cause not the guns. I wonder if Timothy McVeigh was on antidepressants or if the men who flew those planes into the WTC Center buildings, the Pentagon and the pilot of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania were also on antidepressants. I don’t know. I do know this, there is no medication for persons with sociopathic personalities and antisocial personalities.
        I hope and pray you are doing well now and have hope for the future.
        And for those who have responded that depressed persons should just get over it, believe me if they could they would. No one wants to be sad or depressed. I am grateful that we have medicines and support for those just the same as we do for diabetics and cancer patients.

  • Ardius

    Correlation does NOT imply Causation. Sorry, but I’m just not buying that it’s the meds that caused them to flip out and go on murderous rampages.

    • Jonas Planck

      So it is completely unreasonable to suggest that if you deliberately alter the brain chemistry of someone who is already troubled, the results might not be exactly what you were intending? Very well, we will abide by your wishes and stop thinking things that the drug companies don’t want us to think. We wouldn’t want to be SHAMED for questioning the questionable, now would we? After all, questions are a burden on others, and answers are a prison to oneself! A still tongue makes a happy life, does it not?

  • Ally

    Interesting, I also noticed the overwhelming majority of people on this list were boys. Maybe we should just get rid of all males while we’re at it? Just to be safe

    • I’m A Ninja

      They were all Americans.. they should get rid of all… of…

      oh… I see what they’re doing there…

  • Faith LeRoy

    I have to say, first of all, all of these severely disturbed humans had a plethora of mental health issues long before they committed such horrific acts, which means they had more than likely been in and out one or any combination of therapy, psychotherapy, counseling, etc. Unfortunately, these severely disturbed people are generically stamped as depressed when a conclusion cannot be made, thus getting proscribed multiple very well-known medications that are meant for people with depression or anxiety disorders. When in fact these killers were not depressed OR had anxiety disorder.

    Why is it so much easier to blame everything and anything else other than the person him/herself. I have had SEVERE anxiety and panic disorder for the last 11 years. I have also been on Paxil and Zoloft everyday, consistently, for 11 years. Without it I cannot function because I suffer from debilitating panic attacks. Anyone who has ever had one knows how terrifying they can be. The one time I have EVER considered suicide was when I had to be taken off the medication immediately because of pregnancy. Let me tell you, that was the worst 3 months of my life – to the point where I couldn’t stand being in my own skin anymore.

    My point is, these medications are not without their risks (just like every single existing medication on the market, proscription or not), but they are certainly not the reason that all of these people committed unholy acts of violence on other human beings.

  • Mental Health Practitioner

    The only thing I don’t like about this type of reporting is that the journalist doesn’t bother contacting Psychiatrist for a comment nor bothering reading any material on psychotropic medication. He just googles “side effects” on a website… so credible huh? He doesn’t bother mentioning the improvements from MAOIs, Tricyclics and atypicals having higher risks. He doesn’t bother mentioning that it can take up to 5 weeks for an SSRI to make an impact. He doesn’t mention that the increased risk of “psychotic” behavior is also due to the person missing doses. He doesn’t bother mentioning that SSRIs are metabolized differently in each individual. Lastly, that recovery rates of Mental Illness paired with therapy are much higher than those with just therapy or just psychotropic medication. There is no medication out that will “make” someone stop what they want to accomplish. This article should have spent more time looking at the link between these crimes and neurobiology… how it explains the source of faulty decision making is due to the dysfunction between the Amygdala and Hippocampus regions. Amygdala stores emotional response and the neurotransmitters often misfire thus not sending the appropriate information to the hippocampus where impulse control is housed. sigh… this is why I do not like it when journalists step out of their scope of knowledge. They are like children who are back seat drivers to their parents.

  • George

    May I be so bold as to point out that not some but all mass shootings had one thing in common… Guns.

    • ToughLoveChiefsFan

      Being a moron, saying stupid things is hardly “bold”, George.

  • noname

    I see another thing in common… all these killings happened in the USA…

    • justmamajoan

      What about the ones in Iceland or Greenland a few years ago? What about the bombings in London?

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  • This Is a Dangerous Article

    Or it could be that the people who committed these horrific crimes were suffering from mental illness that these medications help to treat. Correlation is not causation.

    • Jonas Planck

      That means that there’s no evidence that the drugs help to treat any mental conditions. Correlation is not causation.

  • am1white

    Mmmm…so, what you’re saying is…they were all nutz to begin with? Thanks for the study.

  • Tina Gamlin

    DOPE is DOPE it doesn’t matter if your drug dealer is from the STREET corner or your drug dealer has a LICENSE to PRESCRIBE you DRUGS by WRITING YOU A PRESCRIPTION. DOPE screws YOU UP. DON’T be A DOPE and DON’T DO DOPE

    • waltinseattle

      oh, amother CCHR going post to post for converts? go home tell them you are a failed thetsn has been. not even the D.A.R.E. scare did squat,
      Btw, i hope you dont drink cofee tea or cocoa, use red white or black pepper, tobacco,cloves, nutmeg, mint,
      cinmamon, aspirin, alcohol, birth control hormones, do you want the complete list?

      • Tina Gamlin

        I am glad your so retarded you cant spell… So I will just take this as another idiot showing his true retardedness….quit eating your toothpaste floride makes you retarded and it shows….on another note…. Since the introduction of SSRI prescriptions there has not been any decrease in violence suicide and abbrevant behaviors just big pharma cashing in….

  • Christopher Leach
  • Sharon Clackson

    i would assume this has less to do with the medications than the reasons they were prescribed in the first place.

  • Debbie

    The black box warning label on the insert of each of these prescriptions says it all

  • LibertySobber

    The title alone was worth the lulz.


    CCHR has been saying this for years. The government and pharmaceutical corporations should be held complicit in the use of these drugs. The crime is not that the person killed someone but that psychiatry enabled these people to create victims. There is nothing more despicable than someone making money from another’s misery.

    • waltinseattle

      CCHR FOR THOSE UNAWARE, Citizens Committee for Human Rights, is a SCIENTOLOGY PROJECT. so that is thete, in the sue the b..tards pjilosophy from there. the aim is not reforming psychiatry but abolishing it. this all becsusr back when l. ron was trying to libe onsco gi fantady, a doc decided thete was not any mentsl illness. thomas Szasz calleded it a “metaphorical illness.” singular as if there were not 2 varieties even. it was all about society controlling people…..well yes, people need control and raising up in cibilization not a feral way. but …he saw gulags and nazi repression everywhere

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  • John

    My friend from high school had contracted Lyme Disease and had adverse psychological problems as a result. His doctors prescribed Zoloft and within a month he had shot himself. Another friend’s sister was a day away from graduating college. She had dealt with an eating disorder and was prescribed Prozac. She was excited about finishing school and had already lined up her dream job, but her parents walked into her apartment to find she had hanged herself. My sister in law had been dealing with Lupus and chronic pain and had developed depression as a result. Her doctor had prescribed several different SSRIs without weening her off of them in between. She was demonstrating abnormal compulsive behaviors, and felt the drugs were messing with her head. Two weeks later she ate a bottle of pain killers, leaving three young children without a mother. Not every person who takes SSRI drugs commits suicide, but everyone I know that’s committed suicide was on SSRI drugs.

    • waltinseattle

      lymes and lupus, thats an odd pair from one poster. usually o read tales of years under psy drugs before somebody remembers to check for lymes…ooops, sosorry…..i think lupus is more evident? you tell me.

      heres my theory
      if your disease involves low serotonin, you might do well trying ssri drugs to compensate.
      if your situation doesnot involve low serotonin, then ssri can only lead to a lot of it coursing thru the circuits, which csn be like dangetous, like a well jacked speed head, fearless and full of attitude, which is why way before ww2 the military was briefly interested in certain drugs from the amazon. supersoldier dreams go way back. serotonin raised hopes. now here we are, serotonon drugs for cibilisns and ptsd in uniform, 23 military suicides evety damn day. sombody get a handle on it amd siomebody START some real scientic work that proscrinerd csn use, not the carefree “sleeps a lot = deprrssion = 2 blue, 1 yellow pill a day”……for Lymes disease !!!!!???? !!! wtf??

  • Thed

    I figure the thing that they all had in common, every single one of them, is that they were born.

    • waltinseattle

      and mothers milk is the real gateway drug, except 4 those who were deprived of it.

  • Kate

    Oh great idea. Make it look like medication is bad. Do you want more problems?

    • Jonas Planck

      Drugs are the answer! Give drugs to our children! Lots and lots of physically addictive psychotropic drugs! They need drugs to function! They can’t LIVE without the drugs! GIMME THE DRUGS OR I’LL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!

      • waltinseattle

        please be constructive. state your dislike of easy drugging, and give some persuasion, experiences,onservations, not over the top frustration for our differences

        • Jonas Planck

          What differences? We agree that our children should be forced to take drugs to make them “normal!” We both understand that being sad, questioning authority, and not being satisfied with shallow materialistic culture are all things that are BAD and should NEVER be tolerated! We have to do everything we can to suppress our children’s thoughts, because those aren’t the thoughts that we WANT them to have! If we allow our children to have their own thoughts, then what’s next, allowing them to make their own decisions? That way lies ANARCHY!!!

          • waltinseattle

            bring it on then, it beats your trollish nonsense!

          • Jonas Planck

            MY nonsense? I’m agreeing with YOU here!

  • Mike

    Someone needs to take a logic class and research methods class.

  • Artist Dia T

    As someone who suffers from depression, I agree with Rich Pasco. You’re pre-disposed and the medication helps the sufferer manage their symptoms. Incorrect use may be a factor.

  • michelle

    Interesting that its mostly males and if you are going to post this, shouldnt you give more history of these peoples behavior and their home situation that warranted the medication?? Its easy to blame a medication instead of accepting that something was just wrong with them to begin with. And most of these occurences happened with detailed planning. So this post needs more to back your opinion. Called looking at the whole picture…

  • aaron

    ok well i have taken a few psychotropic drugs before because i have schizophrenia, risperidone really just made everything worse i was on it for about a weak and they took me off of it really quick because it made it feel like there was static around my eyes and in my head, and on top of that it made me feel like i was in a video game like nothing really mattered! then there was Haldol® which gave me seizures and did nothing else, honestly i could see someone killing someone else because of this because it does not do anything but make you feel like shit and make you wonder when your next bad reaction is going to be.. another thing doctors and psychiatrist get sued all the time because they didnt give you the paper that said what the side effects are and what it can do to you! zoloft is a really horrible drug in itself it just make more people depressed because all it does is put a peminent smile on your face, it does not make you feel any different and those people i have talked to one being an ex girl friend of mine, all it did was make them think about how everyone else thought they where happy because they had a big smile on there face, but on the inside it was just making things worse because they were not happy at all.. Ritalin is almost to hard to handle because i have talked to people that where perscribed by a real psychiatrist and they said that it did the same thing to them that it would to someone that didnt have adhd, it made them feel like they where on some kind of speed all day long and it takes some real getting used to. that being said if you give someone Ritalin at a young age and they dont know how to cope with it, of course someone or alot of people are going to die… enough said! -“just a simple schitzophrenic”

    • waltinseattle

      been around the block there, thanks for a cogent description, not just a bellyache bitch. may i ask what youve settled to as regime? how many years getting there and what your early diagnostics years were like? was sz the 1st diag?

  • JuJu

    I call bullshit. This type of auto-think is dangerous for us as a society, if we ever want to move forward to a time when people aren’t stigmatized by others who lack proper education on mental health and psychoactive drugs. We have to stop assuming every person who commits these acts is an obvious batcase. I do not think the author necessarily intended to report that this is a cause/effect comparison, but it was implied. This notion that the motives of these killers can be explained by default “mental illness” is misleading and terribly inaccurate. Such depictions serve to reinforce the persistent stigma associated with mental illness: namely, that the mentally ill are violent and unstable. It also serves to disguise the fact that the majority of Americans will experience symptoms of psychopathology, if not a diagnosable mental illness, over the course of their lives.

    The fact is, only about 4% of the violence that happens in the United States can be attributed to mental illness (Friedman, 2012). For more info, here’s a good article:

    • waltinseattle

      turn that stat around and talk not of how much of all that violence comes from smi. look at its percentage among just the smi. then please remember to add the suicides. we can talk of populations of which 20% are killers, of which that many will suicide. of which maybe half will tru but not sucveed just comtinue as mutilators, cuttimg regularly Tthose rates are far above rates in the general population. the truth is not the stigma. attitude is. and hiding truth does not make people act better or give up prejudice.

      when one talks of how many woll suffer at some time, those are the jluck ones. others duffer decades. they are not the same biologically. and lumping sicially ancious with florid psycjotics obeying gofs voice…..well, it make no real sense as a point to talk about who needs protection from themselves. until thats clear, dpurious arguments will focus on how much we will look over our wuite sane but frightened shouldet for the next trainpushet. so dont worry about agresdion to thers, have cpasdion for those endangering themselves. its very very very very common
      as is smi being crime victims, easy targets, sport even for some sick souls…

  • Lawrence Sutherland

    The twisted dreams people have suffered from a certain smoking-cessation drug might provide some additional information for this slavish quest for empirical proof. I’d try Lobelia, first.

    • waltinseattle

      that nicotine no more trade off is seriously scary!! rather volunteer for heroin!

  • Nikki

    The thing that bothers me is, that people who have problems like anxiety and depression the first thing the do is run to a doctor. All the doctor is going to do is give them meds, when there are plenty of other ways to solve your problems without taking drugs that might be just as harmful to you as the disorder itself. I have had problems all my life with anxiety and have refused drugs because I don’t want my actions and thoughts to be influence from them. So I started regularly exercising, eating healthier, spending more time outside, taking vitamins, and drinking lots of water. It helps so much to the point where I rarely ever find myself worrying. If people quit relying on drugs that has book long side effects whether or not it causes these shootings and suicides it would still help them without effecting their behavior. You can buy into societies money hungry doctors or you can try and solve your problems naturally.

    • waltinseattle

      you dont have, mever had a SERIOUS MENTAL DISORDER…bipolar, schizophrenia or major depression. these diseases have no respect for the quality of your life, the order of it, the beliefs you have. they can take you from happy at home to raving in streets or rushing across countru withoit a note to hubby or kids. these are gorillas you dont talk to and solve by telling them leave!

  • Krystal

    It really aggregates me that they sit and blame antidepressants and ADHD medication as the reasons these ppl killed others or themselves. These ppl had other issues underlying. I know a few ppl who take antidepressants and never have tried killing anyone or themselves.

    • waltinseattle

      not necessaril other issues, but just different temperments under the disease

    • Jonas Planck

      Ah, so correlation DOES indicate causation, just not in the way the article says!

  • h4x354x0r

    The instructions and disclaimers on all these medications state clearly and explicitly: incidents like these are possible side effects. The drug companies that make and sell this stuff have established causation (not just correlation) in trials. Nobody should be surprised when it happens. It’s a well known risk of taking SSRI’s.

    The drugs are clearly over used in society. The hypocrisy of our approach to drug use, contrasting the violent prohibition of relatively benign drugs like pot while we collectively gobble tons of these pharmaceuticals (and blindly accept the side effects in society), is as crazy as it gets. Ritalin alone: 7+ tons given to minors in the US every year. Ditto that for stuff like Xanax, prozac, and the rest. We sure consume a awful lot of “feel good” drugs, for a society that seems to hate on using feel good drugs. Real long-term effects of giving so many pharmaceuticals to our youth has been largely unknown so far, but we’ll certainly find out eventually.

    All of it is bad for you, both physically and mentally. Unfortunately society’s ways of dealing with mentally different and mentally ill people is even worse: usually, prison. When you use hardship and punishment to modify people’s behavior, those people almost never develop the coping mechanisms you expect, or would like them to. I’m not sure why people remain so blinded to the real outcomes of punitive behavior modification techniques, but they suck.

    As long as violence and drugs are our “go to” answers for behavior issues, we’re going to get drug use and violence in our society. If you want something else, you’ve got to choose something else.

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  • kaitlyn

    Why do people take psychotropic drugs? Generally speaking, a person is prescribed psychtropic drugs because he/she has psychogical issues. Of course a person taking psychotropic drugs MAY have issues with anger, violence, anxiety, etc. They probably also have these issues before they start the drugs. This article is so one-sided, I can’t even begin to take it seriously. Do some more research, look at both sides of psychotropic drugs (the positive and negative), examine violent crimes committed by people who aren’t on these drugs, and then post an article. Furthermore, if you are going to cite a source, at least correctly spell the web address: it’s, not Note: websites such as the one you attempted to mention are created for one purpose, and that is to show you one side of many sides to your argument.

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  • Catwoman

    What were the blood levels of the drugs in each person? Maybe the person was non compliant and not taking enough of the drug. Were there other drugs or illegal substances involved that were not prescribed to them? Many kids don’t take the prescribed meds or they sell them at school. Many kids self medicate with illegal substances. I was just wondering if anyone thought of that. Were the kids and parents in active counseling as recommended while on these medications? Just throwing that out there. The personal incindents that lead a person to such crimes are multifaceted…in other words…there are many reasons.

  • Tom w

    The fact that they need this medication could be the correlation. You don’t get prescriptions for psych mess for being normal

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  • mslovesya

    What isn’t listed is if they were using other prescriptions that could mix with their mood stabilizers or if they were using drugs with them. Many people live healthy and non-life threatening lives on these prescriptions. It also doesn’t doesn’t tell how these people were raised or their influences. This proves nothing. Just one commonality between this group of people. Everyone wants to blame something other than the simple fact…the person who did it.

  • Jenna

    I have been taking adderall for 6 years (prescribed). Same dosage, nothing has ever changed. I went from a C student to a student who made the deans list every semester in college. I never have wanted to kill myself or harm others…… Have any of you ever considered that for all these cases that’s there are 100’s of thousands that these medications help? Grow up.

  • shannon

    These examples, except for three are adolescents, not adults who are on meds….. maybe look at that!



  • been there

    It is not the drug by itself that causes the violent behavior, but inappropriate prescribing. It is all too easy for a doctor to diagnose depression and prescribe an SSRI. However, doctors all too often don’t investigate if the patient has bipolar disorder or bipolar type 2. These people have significant depression but cycle into states of manic activity (or mild elation or euphoria in type 2). If they are given antidepressants alone, without a mood stabilizer, the balance shifts to the manic state, which can cause violence in severe cases. I’d put money down that most of these shooters on SSRIs were really bipolar 1 or 2.

  • Meg

    Another thing they all had in common: they all had access to guns.

  • Rich Grise

    The thing that should be mentioned, but the LSM will fight tooth and claw to suppress, is that virtually every single “mass shooter” event has taken place in a so-called “gun-free” zone.

  • Chris Martin

    Not an expert, but I
    would bet there are medical marijuana edible options that can be substituted
    for nearly everyone of these prescription drugs. Better results, but
    less profits for drug companies.

  • jeff_p101

    This is BS to only show upvotes!!

  • Courtney Grimshaw

    Eric Harris was 18 & Dylan Klebold was 17. The first bullet isn’t correct.

  • Sulli

    I think the problem here goes much deeper than the anti-depressants these shooters were on or the guns that they had acces to. Fundamentally we, as a society, are missing something in how we raise our children, specifically male children, as almost 100 percent of these shootings are carried out by young males. Suicide goes both ways, mass shootings = young males. What are we missing? How can we do this differently? I don’t know the answers, but asking the right questions is a good start….

  • Huntsville, AL

    The two people mentioned from Huntsville, AL are the same person. I understand the point of the article, but being inaccurate and inflating the results will take away from any credibility you may have.

  • Cynthia NeSmith

    I have taken SSRI’S all my life off and on. I did have a moment on wellbutrin where I felt I could hurt someone my dr prescribed a higher dose and I was fine. Maybe there are side effects from the meds. I’ve taken them all minus Ritalin and trazadone. I never felt like killing myself or others. I can see where a person’s judgement could be clouded. I think people should get therapy with the medication.

  • kat

    As a parent of a teen that takes Ritalin these articles kinda irritate me my son if it was not for the medicine my son would not make it through a day of school. Without his medicine he is very impulsive, aggressive and has no attention span. Every month when he sees his doctor he asks me is there any changes do you have any concerns do you think the medicine is still working, When he has had medicine that I felt was not working well or a medicine that i thought making things worse we change to different one. I have a VERY hard time believing that the these people and/or parents did not see any negative side effects or have any concerns. And the people with depression were already depressed how is it the medicines fault that they killed them self? I am truly sorry for these peoples loss but there is more to every story than sally was taking Ritalin or Prozac and then went on a killing spree, Unfortunately we live in a world where no one is held accountable for their actions its always something or someone elses fault.

  • Patricia

    I think it means that more people who are psychotic, whether on drugs or not, are more apt to be mass shooters if they have access to guns, bombs or whatever. His parents knew how he was, and apparently he was able to get at the guns. They blame the NRA. It was not the NRA’s fault nor is it the Second Amendment’s fault. In other words, guns don’t kill people , people do. This is no reason to punish innocent people by infringing on their right to bear arms.

  • Ryan Arko

    This is less than half the list of mass shooters. Some of the names on the list are suicides, one of which doesn’t involve a gun. And I have to say that the title is flawed from the get-go. Nearly every means “not every.” To be a mass shooter involves a gun. So I have to argue that, regardless of other factors and results, EVERY mass shooter has weapons in common.

  • Michael

    I’m 28 years old been taking Zoloft for 9 years and I feel fine. When I first started taking it, the first week I had some increase depression and anxiety but went away after that first week. I think it should only be prescribed to adults, who have severe depression/anxiety.

  • Michael

    Also If teens are going to take anti depressants it should be a requirement to see a therapist or counsellor a couple times a week.

    • Dylan Sayre

      A therapist doesnt work. I know this cause for 8 years of my life I went to 5 different therapist and it all ended up the same. They prescribed Zoloft and Prozac. For years they switched me back and forth saying my depression was an illusion or I just wanted attention

  • Daniel Hively

    interesting. psychologists are now warning people of the possible side effects and making them sign release forms to try to protect them from lawsuits. i have a friend that had him sign one. i think that you are playing with fire when you prescribe theses meds to a child or teen with an undeveloped brain. some of these
    teens may have been insane before they even took those meds but i do see the co relation

  • Dylan Sayre

    Therapy doesn’t work cause they rather twist your words, make you feel like crap by saying your depression is an illusion or you’re just looking for attention. I was very very suicidal until my doctor finally had enough of my 5 different therapists testing me on different antidepressants and he placed me on 60mg Prozac and told my parents to quit taking me to therapy cause its not working. It took almost 2 weeks for the Prozac to kick in and after I was a happy person who actually cared about my life. I saw one person state these kids had access to guns. They all did. My opinion its the parents fault not keeping their guns locked up where the kids couldnt get them and the parents not realizing their child was still depressed. Kinda hard not realizing when someone is depressed

  • Buck_O

    Kind of a sloppy article – Ritalin is not an SSRI drug.


      Its a psychostimulant, which i think is the main point of the article, not just specifically ssri drugs

      • Buck_O

        “Multiple credible scientific studies going back more then a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. ” That and the web site dedicated to SSRI horror stories. Throwing stimulants in there too clouds the picture. So which is it? All drugs or just SSRI drugs? Like I said, sloppy…


          Im not saying it wasnt sloppy. Ritalin affects people mentally and it has been prescribed to children. Its not just a regular stimulant.

  • Buck_O